rereading your post I guess that you are including the obedience as "work" which I can accept. It isn't the most common use here, but that is a problem with language being subject to interpretation. (exactly thank you, And that is what work is to me.) And the form of communication I strive for in all the dogs I train anually.)

Yes I read all the replies, yes one did suggest that, the question didn't. The same techniques are often used for many things. The solution isn't always limited to one type of problem.
(I'm glad you saw this and this is one of the problems I work on with people everyday, As you noticed I don't like the canned answer, much like my don't don't understand a blah command. I try to be clear with my dogs and my teaching of people so canned food and canned answers I stay away from. (except for a good fried spam sandwich every now and again!!!!) (that was a southern joke)

I have seen this a lot with dogs that are high drive. The most common reason is that the dog doesn't have a proper intoduction to the crate in a non-work situation as a puppy.(AMEN) In this case the opporunity for that is lost.
(Not so much)The situation now is to provide a solution for the problem as it is presented now.
(this makes me think that a person with a two year old so called hyer-lab won't down or sit?
This is just not true if we look at applied stress through obedience. Everyday a client calls and says "yeah my dog won't down" 20 min later the dogs down and holds the position.
I'm not trying to imply that it was a piece of cake but wiether they are 2 or 12weeks we need to make it happen we need to apply the stress, praise or release the stress, then give direction or a rediredtion to the situation.)

I have seen a lot of things in dog training. Problems require some sort of soution. In almost every "normal" case the required solution is a function of modifying the undesired behavior. That will usually require some sort of intervention. This type of problem can become a real problem with dogs. Left uncorrected I have seen dogs that will tear cars apart during down time between work sessions.( I hate thes stuff) I have never understood why the problem wasn't corrected when it began, but it wasn't. The best "solution" is to not let the problem occur, not always a choice when the dog is obtained as an adult.(understood and respected but we can do it with a little time) (granted I'm coming from a different frame of mind then sport or pp potential. I this case I will completely agree that it sucks to be the handler.)

I also do that with both, however in both often the solution is to try new things that are different from what you have been doing. So any suggestion provides another look at the problem and with many available perspectives the solution is often contained in one.(agree and understand)

You have further stimulated my thought process. One thing that I have always done with my dogs from the begining of training is not allowed the "out-of-control" prey barking when the dog isn't working. When it isn't their time to work I expect them to stay quiet and controled. I have often been told that this is a mistake that will "squash" drive.( thats the world I'm talking about I'm so glad you said this) My point is always that I don't want to train a problem that I am going to have to correct later.

(Balance is the key!) Yeah I want the drive, Yeah I want the focus but there must be a balance. Good I'm glad we are on the same page. "Squash" the drive, those guys are nuts,,, if thats all it takes to squash his drive then he was soft to begin with. I like my truck the way it is I don't want any towel happy dog in my truck. "kennel in, lay down, and I'll be right back."

Ok, so now that I let the cat out of the bag lets find his solution. I still wish I could hear from him.
Confidence can and should be found through obedience. The obedience can be the dogs job through which he finds stress relieved.
So, bottom line if he has a kennel in command.
he must have a kennel out command.
use then in succession quickly, I mean quickly.
Make the dog really move.
Praise for compliance and correct and redirect the dog for lack of.
repeat 10 15 20 times if needed. you gotta be good you got to smooth you must haveconfidence in your decision.
Free your dog up give him some love,then hit it again if needed.
Then when you feel warm, kennel in the dog then work the down. then the sit,then the down then the sit. Correcting and redirecting as needed
it's like you are makeing the kennel disappear. the dogs stops focussing on the kennel and more on your directions. "Oh wow look an invisible kennel"
I asked this question to a client last night.
"what would you do if you put your dog in a down then he started barking, begging, or crawling away. Her answer I would correct the dog. I said oh why wouldn't you give it a kong with a few treats in it, she said cause I guess I don't want her to be rewarded I just want her in a down. I said great, But whats the difference if your dog is in the kennel in a down, or perhaps in your car, or your police car, or in your kitchen?

So, this dog too can be worked in his kennel around his kennel, ten feet from his kennel everywhere. Obedience used to focus and relieve stress.

Kojak,

Thank you, now I have a new tool for the future. I hadn't thought of using straight obedience commands in the kennel. New tools are always great to get. I don't usually have to correct this problem because I never have it with my dogs. It just isn't allowed from the begining and so I never have it. I do get calls of "how do I fix this?" I saw one dog that could fill a 500 Vari to 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep in about 20 minutes. The dog was just nuts wanting to get out and work, it never learned to turn it off at the training site. I get a headache at most training sessions from all the barking. My dogs are all very calmly laying down to watch the fun. The one exception is when my other dogs work, then I will tolerate it in a puppy, not the adults. They are very attentive to the other dog, but are quiet and maintain a down through the entire session when they aren't working (or mooching attention).

Kojak:

I hope you have a good sense of humor because I crown you the king of the most unreadable posts. Please try this approach in the future:

RC said, "..."
VP responds, ...

RC said, "..."
VP responds, ...

Besides being difficult to read it was a good suggestion. I like what you were saying. Give yourself a tootsie roll pop Kojak.

milt

Whew!!! I'm ready for a nap now! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Vince, Sorry and thank you for the help.

But you got to remember, "I IS a dog trainer"

yeah, i still dont know who was saying what. :rolleyes:
good insight..

Kojak,

Sorry it took so long for me to reply back, I was away at our local U.S.P.C.A. PD-1 trial.

No, I never worked the dog in the crate.

After reading all the replies, I think I now have an idea of how to work the dog in the crate.

I am developing a good level of communication with my new partner. He will listen to all basic obedience commands (sit, down, heel, come, stay, etc&hellip

I do not suspect his behavior to be separation anxiety, because when at home in his outside run he will calm down and totally relax. (Unless someone comes into the yard)

The second I put him into his crate in the back of my truck and close the gate, he begins licking the walls, then drooling, spinning, etc… If I open the gate he stands there and stares at me. If I call him out of the crate and let him play fetch, he will, but the second he is not playing fetch, he will run back into his crate and stand there.

Any toys, treats, kong with biscuits, etc… will not work. He will pay attention to them for about a minute and then drool on them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When driving around, k-9 will bark at people he sees on the streets. When I correct him for barking with “quiet”, he will listen but that does stop the rest of his odd behaviors.

As posted by KOJACK
"So, I will ask these questions.

1. How do you get your dog in the kennel?
For that matter how do you get your dog in you Police car.

2. How often do you repeat this action?
Do you only ask your dog to "kennel in" once or twice a day? Have you ever asked multiple times while either praising, correctiong, or redirecting for the compliance or lack there of?"

I get my dog into the crate by commanding him to "hup". He doesn't hesitate at all. I do this several times a day.

Very interesting thread. I thought VanCamp was the king of unreadable posts?

"I'm just kidding"