Judy...First off let me say that I totally understand what point you are trying to convey. You do realize that unfortunately Gunnar does not have the right temperment for PP traing, and you realized that awhile ago. But you are disappointed with the fact that he seems to see other people as parts of your pack and is willingly letting them into the mix. Is that about right?
What you want, now, is for Gunnar to NOT be quite so "excited" & complacent with strangers. What you are looking for is for him to actually ignore others and concentrate on you and you only.
Even though his temeperment seems to be quite jovial for lack of a better word i FULLY believe that you can get his focus to be only and you only when others are around. The problem, as someone else mentioned is that when you aren't around, he will probably fall back to his fun ways. Why? Well I believe its because when you, the pack leader, aren't around...he doesn't have anyone there to let him know what his actions should be.
Don't forget, our dogs look to us to see what they should be doing. And they read our body language, tone, eye movements, and can even just sense when we're possibly a bit on edge. My dog is the complete opposite to yours. When I am there, say in the backyard and someone comes up to the gate he waits for my reaction to see what he should do. If I m looking at the gate and see the person he watches me intently to see what Im doing but his hackles are down, no growling nothing...just watches. If for some reason Im not there, or around the corner he does what he feels he should do...barks, hackles up etc...because since I am not there he reacts that way he thinks he should, not the way he would when I am there. So like someone else said, he may just revert back to his playful ways when you're not there.
If what you're looking for is just him ignoring others until you tell him its fine I would set him up. But keep him on a long line. Have a friend come down and help you out. Tell them to try and distract him with commands, toys, belly rubs etc...if he starts to respond give a "no" or a correction and tell him to come. Of course praise and treat him (if thats the route your going)when he listens to you and doesn't respond to the other person. If you keep at it, he will eventually start to look to you when someone else does try to call him, pet him etc. At least that is how I would start.
Now, as far as the purolator instance....I, again, understand why you were disappointed with his reaction. I am a single girl 5'2 maybe 120lbs soaking wet and I would also be a bit disappointed if Tucker allowed strangers into the backyard and up to my door without making a sound. I am not saying I want him to attack anyone, i know he's not that kind of dog (and I am not saying thats what you want) but i do want him to at least be able to make someone think twice before strolling through my yard or trying to get in the house.
Do you still socialize him as much as you do? I mean do you allow alot of strangers to pet and touch him? Not that it will help, but maybe curb that for a bit. If strangers want to pet Tucker I always say no..sorry. Especially kids. Just lessen the opportunity for him to think of strangers as an opportunity for an ear scratch or a treat. Just see if that helps a bit.
Sorry this post is long, and I hope i've understood what you're original post is refering to.

Wendy

Judy, sorry I'm late responding.I am always late getting on the board.
My showline male I had , had a bite work foundation and he was a sweet dog very simular to yours but today he would never let a hand go over the fence to pet him.The bringing conflict to a dog at home can be done anytime but has to be done by someone that knows what they are doing and I know you are limited.We do those type of test(not me ) experience helpers to peoples'homes that are members of the club (if they ask) and they know when it's time to back off or put more pressure.A friend helper helped me do that exercise for a friend that had a working line female and she was very comfortable to deal with conflict in her own home.There is a way to do those exercise even with your own dog if you need answers, but it has to be done by a experienced helperand gradually.If your dog goes into avoidance , well then it's time to end the exercise and you'll know that your dog is what he is.But I believe that your dog is a gem because so many showline are fear biters and yours is a "safe" dog.I also believe that anyone seing a GSD on your property will go on to the next home with no dogs.But I understand where you are coming from, but look at Yaggo I cannot have my sons' teenager friends pet him or hang out in the house when he is in it too.Some dogs are so extreme on one side and others on the other.At times believe me I wish Yaggo was like Gunner..

 Quote:

If your dog goes into avoidance , well then it's time to end the exercise and you'll know that your dog is what he is

Why would you end the exercise on avoidance?

German Showline and American Showline also makes a difference. If I remember the pedigree correctly Judy's dog is an American line dog. Also, as you said, your dogs have a foundation in bitework. I work alot of german showline dogs in bitework, some of them are better than others, but they all need the field work and exposure, n often they will only work well with 1 helper and break down when you show them something new. I wouldn't work a showline in any of that stuff unless the person understands dogs and understands the showline temprement or the dog will break down.

Judy, I’m afraid I’m going to have to agree with Alice on this one. Don’t mess with the sweet guy. If you want him to ignore strangers when you are around, call him to you or correct him when he doesn’t come. He’ll get the hint. I know for a fact that that dog is rarely out of your sight, so I guess I’m just confused at what you want, as well. If you want to let him outside in the yard but don’t want him to bother with anyone, fence in the yard. If the yard is fenced in and people bother him, yell at the people.

If you want him to ignore strangers when you’re not around, I don’t think you can do it. Who is there to correct him when he misbehaves? No one, and he will soon find that out.

If I’m way off track, FEEL FREE TO YELL.

 Quote: wendy lefebvre

Judy...First off let me say that I totally understand what point you are trying to convey. You do realize that unfortunately Gunnar does not have the right temperment for PP traing, and you realized that awhile ago. But you are disappointed with the fact that he seems to see other people as parts of your pack and is willingly letting them into the mix. Is that about right?
What you want, now, is for Gunnar to NOT be quite so "excited" & complacent with strangers. What you are looking for is for him to actually ignore others and concentrate on you and you only.
Even though his temeperment seems to be quite jovial for lack of a better word i FULLY believe that you can get his focus to be only and you only when others are around. The problem, as someone else mentioned is that when you aren't around, he will probably fall back to his fun ways. Why? Well I believe its because when you, the pack leader, aren't around...he doesn't have anyone there to let him know what his actions should be.
Don't forget, our dogs look to us to see what they should be doing. And they read our body language, tone, eye movements, and can even just sense when we're possibly a bit on edge. My dog is the complete opposite to yours. When I am there, say in the backyard and someone comes up to the gate he waits for my reaction to see what he should do. If I m looking at the gate and see the person he watches me intently to see what Im doing but his hackles are down, no growling nothing...just watches. If for some reason Im not there, or around the corner he does what he feels he should do...barks, hackles up etc...because since I am not there he reacts that way he thinks he should, not the way he would when I am there. So like someone else said, he may just revert back to his playful ways when you're not there.
If what you're looking for is just him ignoring others until you tell him its fine I would set him up. But keep him on a long line. Have a friend come down and help you out. Tell them to try and distract him with commands, toys, belly rubs etc...if he starts to respond give a "no" or a correction and tell him to come. Of course praise and treat him (if thats the route your going)when he listens to you and doesn't respond to the other person. If you keep at it, he will eventually start to look to you when someone else does try to call him, pet him etc. At least that is how I would start.
Now, as far as the purolator instance....I, again, understand why you were disappointed with his reaction. I am a single girl 5'2 maybe 120lbs soaking wet and I would also be a bit disappointed if Tucker allowed strangers into the backyard and up to my door without making a sound. I am not saying I want him to attack anyone, i know he's not that kind of dog (and I am not saying thats what you want) but i do want him to at least be able to make someone think twice before strolling through my yard or trying to get in the house.
Do you still socialize him as much as you do? I mean do you allow alot of strangers to pet and touch him? Not that it will help, but maybe curb that for a bit. If strangers want to pet Tucker I always say no..sorry. Especially kids. Just lessen the opportunity for him to think of strangers as an opportunity for an ear scratch or a treat. Just see if that helps a bit.
Sorry this post is long, and I hope i've understood what you're original post is refering to.

Wendy

Wendy, I just had to quote your entire post. You soooo completely get it I want to hug and kiss you. I swear I could cry I'm so relieved to see your post . I was speaking English, I knew it!

You are absolutely right on the money! Your first paragraph is exactly how he acts and the rest of your post is exactly what I want.

OK, now I have some direction, I'll curb the petting. Yea, I still say no to guys for the most part (first mistake - I shouldn't let it happen at all) but sometimes it's hard. Gunnar just gives off these friendly vibes and I'll be walking and people just lean out to pet him. Some ask, most don't. He must have a sign on his forehead "Pet Me, I Don't Bite". So if that happened and they did pet him without my permission, I would just let it happen (second mistake). Now I won't. It's a great start.

Thank you Wendy and to all the others who got me (you know who you are ). And to all of you who missed the boat, thanks - I know you were trying to help .

Well it all depends how far she wants to take the exercise, some dogs that go into avoidance need more time and gradual training.I have seen dogs that go into avoidance right off the bat , 1) they can be too young and 2 )they need re-enforcement by their handlers. It all depends if she just wants to see right off the bat what he'll do as a test.We have done that test numorous times and when the dog (young) has gone to an avoidance behavior the owner of the dog wants to wait till the dog is older.I simply was pointing out to Judy for a reaction test, if he goes into avoidance she does not need to go further if she chooses.A simple suggestion

I should have added that one of the evaluators did the evaluation in what you guys would say is defense. I know now that's not a good way to teach but the point is that I went to them twice and both times the man who was the helper/decoy/bad guy would come out of the house and peek around the corner and Gunnar would spot him and barked aggressively at him. The guy would then move to a tree and peek out and each time he looked at Gunnar, Gunnar stood his ground and barked the aggressive bark you'd want to hear, not the excited, nervous bark. He'd disappear into the back yard and Gunnar stood there in the front yard barking and looking for him.

Sounds like Gunnar did a good guard.Why don't you keep it up with a helper? And what did this helper tell you from that exercise?

 Quote: angelique cadogan

Sounds like Gunnar did a good guard.Why don't you keep it up with a helper? And what did this helper tell you from that exercise?

I thought he did a good "guard" too!

A lot of people here at Leerburg told me to stay away from someone who teaches in defense so I never went back to them. I don't remember exactly what they said about Gunnar. I think there is a thread in the archives where she (there were two of them and the guy was the bad guy) she posted something about Gunnar. Whatever she told me I kind of put out of my head because I got the impression she was someone I should stay away from (due to the defense part of it). I'll have to try and find it.