They are my favorite breed and I certainly hope they remain as strong as they are now. The most challenging dogs that I have owned for sure. Every time I let up just a little they pull some crap that gets me back on my toes. One lives in the house full time and the others come in when invited. You do have to be diligent about "managing" them.

As for them not being dogs for beginners I think it depends on the person. You have to have a sense of humor and find them fascinating and fun! Oh, and be willing to keep them entertained, in return they will certainly keep you entertained. Staying one step ahead of them is the hardest part for me, then again, I'm not as young and quick as I used to be!

 Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood

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I live in Malinoisville btw!

Oh. Good point. They don't have Mal's here

Yes it is something totally different there a 'Melchaar' no Malinois allowed. Welcome to Mechelentown Mike!

To answer the original post, I would say out of those 3 dogs the Malinois IS the "easiest" as far as training/handling. Maybe not to live with or raise. The three dogs you mention are very different, it almost makes no sense. Which one do you like the best? Cane Corsos are larger, slower, possibly lower-drive, and may be more defensive than prey oriented. They may not be the one running across a field, but will defend you while at your side. I feel this one may be the most difficult for you to train, depending on what you want to do. My opinion is that you should go for the Corso if you want just a PP dog, and he may have to be brought out through defense. A dog without prey drive will be harder to motivate.
The GSD is not an easy dog to train, might mature slower, and take good skill to train, but I have seen some great DDR dogs who were VERY serious in their civil PP work.
Also consider any working-breed dog- Rottweiler, Boxer, Dobe, or Pit Bull are other options for good PP dog. Even a Bullmastiff, Presa, etc. Each has it's own particulars.

My older Mal (in the picture in my sig) is out of two Dutch imports from KNVP lines, I had a Belgian dog, and now I have a French pup. Malinois can be a bit impulsive, and they need to be worked often. They are high-drive, and can develop problems if not given enough exercise and training. They are not the kind of dogs you leave in a kennel and don't work often, they can end up going quickly downhill, spinning obsessively and soiling their crates. They like to be around people, mine are very affectionate. I like an aloof personality to strangers, but I don't like a dog who is dangerous to people. If I tell my dog it's ok, he will go up to anybody and accept their attention and petting.

Mals are easy dogs to train, in general, very easy to start but maybe a little harder to finish into a great civil PP dog. I love Malinois, and a lot of people do because they are so easy to train, and how they come out biting. Well, most of them come out biting, of course some have to be worked with a lot before they will even bite. I have heard several people say Schutzhund is too easy for Mals, and that it's like cheating when ppl bring them to the clubs, LOL. I do ring sport, I like it much better. Even if you have a very average, or crappy Malinois, it will still LOOK good when it does things, the young ones I've trained pick up OB like a sponge, and look great even with little work. Anyways, they are not for everyone. If someone wants a more laid-back dog, they should go with another breed.

You talk about "strong handler" well that all depends on the dog itself, not the breed. I know Malinois who are very soft, and some who are very hard and handler aggressive. Any dog has the ability to bite its handler if pushed or treated unfairly. You don't necessarily need a "strong" handler any more than you do with any working-breed dog. A weak owner usually creates monsters. If you are a weak owner, push the dog too far, or are unfair in your corrections to ANY dog, expect the possibility of being attacked.

I think a Malinois is a fine beginners dog, if it is what you are looking for. Now the important thing is finding a GOOD one! You may also want to consider buying an adult dog or older pup, you may be able to see what you're getting more. The most important thing in all your decisions is having a really good trainer who won't ruin your dog, but will make them (no matter how good/bad the dog starts out like) into a great civil PP dog. A good trainer makes great dogs.

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because they are so easy to train

Wow do you think you said that enough times?? Again, going back to what I said about "breeding down so beginners can handle them."

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

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because they are so easy to train

Wow do you think you said that enough times?? Again, going back to what I said about "breeding down so beginners can handle them."

A dog learning obedience very fast has nothing to do with breeding down. I don't think they should be bred down so that more people like to train them or so beginners can train them easier. It changes the genetics when you breed a dog for a sport, too.

I've been in these types of discussions before and seems like everyone had different experiances with Mals . We also are forced to speak in generalities and that often gets touchy . But here it goes from my experiance.

I trained with 1-3 year old imported Mals , usually green some titled . I helped train classes of usually over 12-16 Police K9 candidates , most GSD's with about 2 being Mals . It was a 10-13 week course where the dogs were trained in , obediance , tracking , article search , criminal apprehension and handler protection . Later on the K9's would come back for an about 4 week detector school ( Narc , bomb and some times wildlife detection ). Most handlers were new .

For the most part the Mals picked up quickly in most of these areas but inevitably like most of the dogs in the class a problem would pop up somewhere . I found most of the Mals to be pain in the butt(often literally) to problem solve but once you
trained through the problem they were great .

Many times the teaching was easy but once into the proofing phase is where it got difficult . Generally speaking many got distracted . We could be in the beginning phases of an off-lead building search and the Mal comes across a basketball or something , next thing you know you got a happy Mal with a deflated basketball in his mouth . Very hard to refocus the dog after that . Same goes for detection work , bring the Mal into a room with say something as simple as a chair in an odd part of the room , the Mal would focus on that and become very hard to get back on task . Once brought a Mal into a classroom for a narc search where all the chairs had tennis balls on the end of the legs to keep them quiet . I thought the dog was going to have a heart attack .

The reasons I have seen they are tough for first timers is because they usually react alot faster then most dogs . For a beginner where timing is very important in training they are tough to get a good well timed correction . I often see the handler become frustrated or intimidated . They seem better then most dogs in picking up the subtle cues in the handlers body language that a correction is coming also . Couple the new handlers' frustration or intimidation with the dog knowing what's coming and that's a good recipe for a bite . This goes for a low level correction on up , doesn't seem to matter .

Even though they learn most things very quickly overall I find them to be difficult to train but once we've got them trained through the problem areas most turn out to be great PSD's .

I've been around the country and have talked to alot of PSD Trainers and most find them hard to train but worth it . I've come across a few that have found them easy and they fall into to 2 catagories for me .

#1 They're exceptional trainers with alot of experiance and a special knack for handling Mals .

#2 They're trainers(usually new to training but not in their minds) that have had limited experiance(once again not in their minds) with Mals and need to see more of them .

Once again , they are great Police K9's and worth every second of work that's put into them and so I don't get chewed out by somebody I will add that I've had the same type of problems with other breeds . I will also add that my experiance is with imported young adult Mals with a limited knowledge of their history . My guess has always been they came to us with issues or they would still be over in Europe .

IMO , the attributes new handlers of Mals should have are;

#1 patience
#2 energy
#3 confidence
#4 good timing as it pertains to rewarding or correcting dogs in training .

 Quote: jennifer n. hack

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

 Quote:

because they are so easy to train

Wow do you think you said that enough times?? Again, going back to what I said about "breeding down so beginners can handle them."

A dog learning obedience very fast has nothing to do with breeding down. I don't think they should be bred down so that more people like to train them or so beginners can train them easier. It changes the genetics when you breed a dog for a sport, too.

The problem that I see with Mals if you are a green handler is Malinois will learn bad habits just as fast as good habits. That is what I've found with my dog. Just because they learn quick doesn't mean they are bred down. It's all about the individual dog as well.

A bred down Malinois is anything with a conformation title in it's pedigree. I'd even be tempted to say a Malinois with a SchH title is not doing the breed any justice as the sport for Malinois really is Ringsport all of the different ones Mondio, French or Belgian. If a KNPV line dog is in the pedigree that's another line that is not bred down. YMMV.

I totally agree with Jim Nash's post as well. I see that in the high level sport dogs as well. I've only come across a few PSDs up here and the officers who have them I'm sure they have the same type of issues as we do in sport.

Learning quick does not = Easy to train, and certainly not for a beginner. Especially not when it comes to a Malinois.

Jim put it very well IMO.

 Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood

Learning quick does not = Easy to train, and certainly not for a beginner. Especially not when it comes to a Malinois.

So what do you constitute 'easy to train' Mike?

If a handler knows what they are getting into even as a beginner and gets help. Like I did as a beginner with my Malinois who learns quick btw she ended up easy to train as she approached 15-16 months, sure the first year was a sometime hellish experience. But overall I've had great results with her. I am very happy with the whole package now.

I'm not posting to get into a pissing match with you, I am posting to try and get this retarded notion out of peoples heads that Mal's are appropriate beginner dogs. There are always exceptions, and always those that learn faster and "get it." There are also plenty of "experienced" folks that simply shouldn't own a Mal and people that have owned 10 dogs and still don't get it. Even worse, there are people that think they belong in the "learn faster and get it" category and really do not.

The general rule of thumb is that everybody ****s up their first 3 dogs to some degree, and from then on out they get more right and less wrong as time goes on. ****ing up with a Malinois can totally trash any potential the dog had, or get the handler into a whole world of trouble.

Look at the number of beginners that post here that ask the worlds most basic questions and are essentially "learning on the job." No matter how much preparation a person goes through to try and prepare themselves for their first working dog, a Malinois no less, you cannot learn without doing, and a Malinois is not the ideal dog to learn on the job with from scratch. Not to mention all the pack structure issues that beginners have with their dogs and need help with. A male Mal with any kind of dominant tendencies will wipe the floor with someone that hesitates and doesn't know how to deal with the dog.

Can it be done? Obviously it can by the right person with the right dog. I never said it CAN'T be done. This forum is read by thousands of people, it is better to address the vast majority than the tiny minority.

The downside to the internet is also that people can really say anything they want about their dogs and nobody can disprove it. I have met people that brag about their dogs endlessly 20 minutes before I actually see the dogs work, and the dogs sucked really really badly. You'd think the handlers would be embarrassed about all their bragging, but no, they honestly believe their dogs are that great. Thats without the internet to hide behind.

There are so many Mals out there, that there will inevitably be people that think they have the worlds greatest dog and go around telling everyone how nice and easy the dogs are to train. I'm not addressing you at all Geoff, just making a general statement. I will never be the one to announce on a forum that everyone that wants a Mal can train one because they are easy to train. That's pretty ridiculous right there.