Are you sure this dog is fear based?
This dog is houndxGSD mix?
Where is this handler aggression coming from? Am I understanding he is handler aggressive? Or is he just plain neurotic?

I think somewhere you said he regressed on the pinch, regressed to? If that's so, you've found first hand it's easier to escalate to than to back track trying to repair something that was too much for the dog to take or ready for.

All kinds of free info laying around here on marker training, also called operant(spelling?) conditioning. Check it out.

Kelly,

Regarding the aggressive behavior, there are many different types of aggression. You need to first determine if it is fear or dominance based or both. There are different training methods for each type of aggression towards both dogs and people.

It sounds to me like you have too many aggressive issues to work thru on your own and need the help of an experienced, positive based canine behaviorist.

Then there is aggressive biting which is different from mouthing and playbiting, you need to determine which it is to be able to solve your biting issues.

At this point, I have no idea what type of aggression he has. I have spent a TON of money on this pup between the different collars and harnesses and trainers. Not to mention the "special food" for his itchy skin. I cannot continue to do this. My hubby wanted to get rid of this pup months ago, but I kept persevering. We really can't afford to spend money, especially if it's not going to work. Right now, I'm willing to spend what we are getting back from the pinch trainer. I am awaiting the pack structure video. I can either order the food training one or hire a session or 2 with a trainer who deals with behavioral issues in a positive way (I'm having a hard time finding one, but found 2 names yesterday). If the Pack Structure one will do more damage to my pup, I will return it without even opening it and save my money. I am not planning on isolating him, so if that's a required basic of the video, then maybe I should return it??
He regressed back to running away from garbage cans, bags blowing, constantly looking over his shoulder on walks, jumping at noises, running away from dogs, but sometimes towards them now as well, etc..
We think Toby may also have some Australian Shepard and maybe Corgi in him as well.

Kelly,

I was thinking on the same lines as Randy about this being truly fearful/aggressive or not. From reading the posts, it sounded like a family I know now going through the same situation. They keep saying the dog is dominant, aggressive, fearful, and I see a puppy that has not had consistent leadership, and now the behavior has escalated. If your family was frustrated enough to get rid of a puppy at 4 mpnths old, I can assume that this frustration has only grown since the behavior hasn't changed. Do you think this has had any influence on working with the pup in a positive/motivational way? If you haven't been 100 percent clear with this pup using positive training, The fact is that you will not know how to be clear to the pup while using compulsion{timing} ..this scenario wouldn't be fair! there should be a balance between positive reinforcement and compulsion.
Stick with positive reinforcement until you gain a clear understanding of what this pup really is, a behaviorist is a good idea.

So, would you recommend I send the Pack structure video back?? And I'm guessing the only way to be totally positive and not use correction is to keep him tethered to me whenever he is not in his crate??

What would I do when he snaps at us or growls at someone, or when he gets something in his mouth and won't drop it? I forgot to mention that he also has some food aggression.

No.. I don't recommend you send the Pack Structure Video back, it will really help you if you follow it. I use corrctions only after I know that the dog understands what I want. I always keep pups tethered to me,this way I can redirect/correct at the appropriate time. If your child is in the living room with the pup, your in the kitchen, the pup is biting your child, how do you correct that?

 Quote: tammy moore

No.. I don't recommend you send the Pack Structure Video back ..... I always keep pups tethered to me,this way I can redirect/correct at the appropriate time. If your child is in the living room with the pup, your in the kitchen, the pup is biting your child, how do you correct that?

I'm going to disagree with the first part, but only because of the previous comment about it's either that or something else, but not both, and I am big on some real training for this dog, as Randy and others have pointed out. I'd swap it as noted below. (Please understand that I think the pack structure would be extremely valuable; it's hard in this situation to pick one expenditure. And I may be 100% wrong, too.)

Randy made a post about slowly introducing this dog to reactive elements that seems not to have been noticed much. That's huge.

He doesn't speak human, and he has had no consistency. If any dog needed marker work, it would be this dog -- but combined with constant management and pack leadership, as Tammy and Willie and others say.

We, the humans, prevent the bad situation. We lead, we stand tall, we put the dog away if he can be heading for trouble, we set him up for success.

As for the pinch "trainer" -- aargghh. This "He said that there is really no problem that cannot be fixed by the pinch correction" would wipe that "trainer" off my list forever, as others have said. Not only a terrible idea, but completely incorrect even if one wanted to go the "all prong" route. "He said that my pup alway had the fearfulness and aggression in him. In order to get rid of it, it needs to be brought out and corrected. " Correct fearfulness?!


Prong collars are not a "training method." Period. They can be a wonderful walking tool. Period. ( JMO, of course.)


I would reread this thread first, because I just read the whole thing from post one and I saw some gems about managing this pup (which seem not to have been noticed much). Management would not allow any physical romping with children or interaction with guests at this stage. The dog would not be grabbed by the collar to get him away from something because he wouldn't have free roam of the house. He'd be tethered to me, he'd be outside getting exercise, or he'd be crated if there was any chance of an excited interaction.

I'd want the first maker DVD. http://leerburg.com/219.htm

Yes, I would want the Michael Ellis one (badly!) if I were you, but I'd love if if you could get a real beginner's foundation in marker work first. But others might want to comment too, on which is better if there can be only one. I'm not married to my idea; it just seems thorough.

I would like to teach some "walk nice" indoors with this dog, with zero distraction. Maybe a cellar or attic or hallway, then a backyard. I'd like him to be tired, maybe from running and chasing a toy (no kids) in the yard before the first few walks "on the road" where all the smells and sights and sounds are.

Can you clarify whether you are now walking him with the prong and how that's going?

What you would do ... You would have more reason to understand and incorporate Pack Structure!

What is this pup's routine been like thus far? Where does he eat, sleep, child interactions, crate times, out of crate?

 Quote: Tammy Moore

.... What is this pup's routine been like thus far? Where does he eat, sleep, child interactions, crate times, out of crate?

You took my next post right out of my mouth.

Please include training and exercise.