Quote: tracey holden

You can get the hump of you like Rovena, if you feel 'judged' well thats your own perception of what I said, I have first hand knowledge of dogs placed in the wrong sort of home, for whatever reason, often the shelter is full, the people running it have actually no food for the dogs so they are putting them to sleep, so the dogs that ARE lucky enough to get placed deserve the very best placement they can get.

I rehomed a dog over a year ago with the best of intentions, my heart shouted louder than my head, and the consequences of my well meaning but ignorant actions resulted in Kaiser being at the mercy of my mentally ill and aggressive younger dog, that dog was pts, and I am still racked with guilt over it, Kaiser is none the worse for wear now, thank god, and is part of a happy and disciplined pack, I NEVER assume it will always stay this way, and work on ob every single day, exercise them till they drop and take on board all advice I get from experienced Boerboel owners.

I don't apologize for being honest about your situation as I see it, you have come to a board full of really experienced and wise people (I am NOT one of them), and yet you are still justifying what is happening with your dog instead of listening and implementing.

I could give a toss if you ignore me, but when I see constant dismissing of damn good advice and insight, it irritates the hell out of me.

I hope you find the help you are looking for, your dog will benefit from it, even if it ruffles your feathers.

I understand. I very well realize now how badly this could have gone, how stupid I was, and what I did wrong. I don't think it's too late, and I'm having a lot of fun learning this. I refuse to let my feathers get ruffled, lol. I can't be stupid about this, I realize.

Thanks again for the time and effort you guys put into this! It's really pretty amazing; I've never seen such quick responses and the desire to help from strangers on a forum. I wish I could reassure you all, but I guess only time will do that.

"Could you please change that?"

Could who? I caught that one line while skimming through another page-long post of terminology and theory discussion.

"I wish I could reassure you all, but I guess only time will do that."

And action.


I'd re-watch the marker video, because I have to assume that it was skimmed or watched partway through (from the description on page one of thread one and then from the clips of actual commands given), and I'd follow that with Power of Training with Food. I'd study those videos. I'd re-load a new verbal marker, I think, because the clicker may be too tainted. I'd choose a word that you don't use in common "conversation" with the dog .... a word used ONLY for your marker.

I'd also implement NILIF.





ETA
Please make sig pic smaller. The size of the others you see would be good. Thanks!


Edited by Connie Sutherland (01/09/2012 11:19 AM)
Edit reason: ETA

"I think there are a lot more complexities than a lot of people aren't taking into account."


The RX will stay the same. Control, containment, excellent obedience, NILIF, desensitizing. Better yet, experienced on-the-scene help.

Without seeing the dog in action, complexities that take an entire web page to be introduced just cannot be hashed out here. They can't be explained by someone not versed in reading the dog who is trying to put them in writing to be interpreted by readers. They are weighing down the thread incredibly as we go around and around and around.

If the dog has gained in confidence in the yard, then (as has been pointed out by at least three responders), he has adopted that behavior now. He is confident that it works (because it DOES). It may well escalate.


All JMO, however! Feel free to carry on with the theory posts.

But some action along with it would be good for the situation you first posted about.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

"Could you please change that?"

Could who? I caught that one line while skimming through another page-long post of terminology and theory discussion.

Thanks; I'm sorry, it's funny how real names are harder to remember than made-up ones usually on forums. I thought I was talking to a mod.

 Quote:

"I wish I could reassure you all, but I guess only time will do that."

And action.

Yes.

 Quote:

I'd re-watch the marker video, because I have to assume that it was skimmed or watched partway through (from the description on page one of thread one and then from the clips of actual commands given), and I'd follow that with Power of Training with Food. I'd study those videos. I'd re-load a new verbal marker, I think, because the clicker may be too tainted. I'd choose a word that you don't use in common "conversation" with the dog .... a word used ONLY for your marker.

I'd also implement NILIF.

I really like the way Cindy does it, with the "yes", and I won't have to have so many spare clickers everywhere all the time. Also as you say clicking may be not good anymore. No I watched several DVD's in entirety, but I guess I just didn't transfer that to a real skill. In spite of that, Mondo does learn things. I am convinced that marker training is the best way, but dogs can learn without it. I do want to do it right, however.

Yes, on teh NILIF.

 Quote:

Please make sig pic smaller. The size of the others you see would be good. Thanks!

Don't you think it's pretty and shows the dogs not being miserable? JK, I'll take it out and see if I can fix later.

All this stuff is helping with my other dog too; I started training my 12 year old, the other one in the pic, with marker training, and for the first time in her life, she doesn't jump up on people. She's a nice dog, but always so "stubborn" when I tried to train her. I hope I can find another trainer to come in person, however.

Stubborn is a human thing.


A common situation that owners will call "stubborn" is "confused."

A dog who has no idea what is expected/commanded/wanted will indeed appear "stubborn" about a command. Or sometimes a dog who has been unfairly corrected is afraid of training in general.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

The RX will stay the same. Control, containment, excellent obedience, NILIF, desensitizing. Better yet, experienced on-the-scene help.

Yes.

 Quote:

Without seeing the dog in action, complexities that take an entire web page to be introduced just cannot be hashed out here. They can't be explained by someone not versed in reading the dog who is trying to put them in writing to be interpreted by readers. They are weighing down the thread incredibly as we go around and around and around.

I know. Remember also, I had a very concerned vet advise me, and a professional trainer. So it's not completely just my ill-informed opinion.

 Quote:

If the dog has gained in confidence in the yard, then (as has been pointed out by at least three responders), he has adopted that behavior now. He is confident that it works (because it DOES). It may well escalate.

Yes. I saw it happen; he got brave very quickly. Besides that (horrible) behavior, he's actually a lot more sensible than my other dogs. They run the fence-line, barking at people some, dogs more, but welcoming anybody who actually reaches out to them, kind of this mindless thing that dogs do (It was bad I let them do that, I know now, and they are in the fence too.) But Mondo, he stays on the porch, stays alert, stays calm, and considers people more of a threat than dogs. He's just a "smarter" dog (I don't know if that is intelligence or instinct, but either way, it looks smarter.) The other dogs acting like that doesn't phase him. I though that quality alone was really good; I've never had a dog who will stay by the house like that.

The only time he acted aggressive from a distance was once when some guys must have dropped a bunch of stuff out of a truck; they were stopped, in the street right by the yard picking it up, and so I went to the door. He was in the yard, close to the house, not near the fence line at all, but did have that attack posture, hackles up, mean bark, etc. So I went to the door, called him, and he came inside immediately. He then went straight to the right window to see them, and just watched, now entirely calm, hackles going down, me telling him it's OK, him quickly licking my face and then turning back to watch again, and then "knowing" that the situation was OK. I can calm him very well under less intense circumstances, so I think I can develop the ability to do it other times too.

That's why I think if I do the right things to train him correctly, he will be very much safer in any possible situation. He's not nuts, or wired wrong, or anything like that. I do know enough about like phsiology, psychology, etc. to know this for sure. From the terminology of the DVD's, I think he is a relatively soft dog; a little pull (by him) on the prong collar, he yipped, and didn't do it again. (He didn't really care much about the people and the pomeranians, he's seen them before, but like I said for some reason when they bark at us, my other dog goes wild. They are sometimes loose too, running into the street, but Mondo shows no sign of dog-aggression or even paying much attention if dogs bark at him. He backed off a lab that wanted to attack him once just by snarling at it; it skidded to a halt and put it's tail between it's legs so fast, it was kind of funny. (NOt a good situation, I know, but once again, I got lucky, and he may have saved my 12 yeard old from being attacked.)

OK, this is good to describe--there is a yard near my house with two very barky, big german shepherds. I'm not scared of them; I know their names, think they are more bark than bite, and know they most likely cant' get out. They are behind a wire fence that can contain them, but is practically invisible to Mondo, evidently. (Mondo ran into accidentally once.) At first, he would walk as far away as he could, trying to get into the trees, wisely not wanting to tangle with those two dogs. However, he quickly learned (like after two times) that they cannot get us, and he stays right by me, and doesn't even look at them, trotting and staring straight ahead, meanwhile they're going crazy, my dumb 15 year old beagle-rabbit mix (that happens in the south sometimes ) thinks she can fight them if I would just let her, etc. Things like that show me that he is not inappropariately hyper-reactive or uncontrollably afraid. (in his mind, I mean, the delivery men shouldn't be attacked, but he doesn't know that yet).

 Quote:

But some action along with it would be good for the situation you first posted about.

I will report to you what I'm doing, so people won't think I'm not doing anything. I"m really hoping for a good trainer recommendation in my area, but until then, thanks again Connie for your continued help. (And everybody.) Thanks for taking the time to really understand.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Stubborn is a human thing.


A common situation that owners will call "stubborn" is "confused."

A dog who has no idea what is expected/commanded/wanted will indeed appear "stubborn" about a command. Or sometimes a dog who has been unfairly corrected is afraid of training in general.

I know. She was so friendly, and naturally watches me constantly and stays with me in the woods, so it didn't matter much if she didn't obey commands.

Any word like "stubborn", etc. I'll put in quotes to show it is the outward appearance, but I recognize may not be accurate as far as a description of what is really going on with the dog.

P.S. I can't get that sig pic out! The link isn't in my profile, just the pic.

 Quote: Rovena Kessinger

P.S. I can't get that sig pic out! The link isn't in my profile, just the pic.

Under "my stuff," then "edit profile."

I did that, but it's the pic itself, not the link, and I don't know how to delete it. When I get home I'll delete that pic out of photobucket. I cant' remember my there password right now. Or if somebody (like you) would like to do it for me, I would appreciate it.

I think I'm getting deeper and deeper into your debt all the time...

P.S. :doh: I didn't see there was a "profile" and "edit profile".




Mod note: Looks like it's resolved.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (01/09/2012 03:00 PM)
Edit reason: add note