Nerves are the most misunderstood topic that I can think of. There are so many different things that effect the nerve make up of a dog. I have some very close friends who moved to Australia from Russia/Ukraine where he was a Military/Police dog trainer. He was also a breed warden for his breed of choice. He is a geneticist by trade and his wife is a doctor in Vet science among other science degrees. When they talk about nerves they do so with the medical knowledge alot of people don't have. When they talk about sharpness, they also tie it into what they call "Speed of nervous thought transfer" Basically they give this comparision. A saint Bernard walks in the park and a branch falls onto his head. A Dobermann walks in a park and a branch falls on his head. The dobermann will have realised what had happened five times quicker than the saint bernard does. This is nothing to do with Fight/Flight. I guarentee you that the saint bernard when threatened will run before a good sharp dobe. You then go into Adreneline and other stuff that comes into the picture. A lab has what alot of people here would describe as strong nerves. Put a lab into defence and see it back down. I am no expert on nerves myself but I know enough to know it aint simple.

Thank you I do not feel so bad about my lack of understanding. I am the first to admit that I have a long way to go before I finish reading the book of How to perfectly protection train a dog.

I have an idea/request/suggestion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
How about y'all create a vocabulary list with these terms you've been tossing back and forth and provide a definition for each, if you can agree on them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
That way novice trainers like myself can refer back to them to clarify exactly what is being said in future posts. Then again, getting some of you experts to agree to the particular meanings may be like establishing middle-east peace. Oh well, it never hurts to ask, right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Mudre:
I have an idea/request/suggestion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
How about y'all create a vocabulary list with these terms you've been tossing back and forth and provide a definition for each, if you can agree on them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Great idea! For starters let's begin with "is". If we can all agree on what "is" is, there might be hope for coming to some kind of a concensus on the other terms. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Seriously tho', IMO training and working with dogs is more of an art than a science. The more one tries to formalize it or to come up with fixed recipes, the more frustrating it becomes both for the dog & the handler.

Drives (the terms you are referring to I assume) are feelings or emotions which express themselves in behaviors. One problem in defining drives is that the same behavior can express any number of different drives -- so you can't develop a dog training manual like you can develop a machine operator's manual. Good training is an art -- a good trainer learns to develop skills at reading feelings and working with them more than by defining them.

If you remember the story of the 3 blind men who encounter an elephant on the road -- each blind man touches a different part of the elephant -- one touches the leg, another touches the trunk and the third touches the tail. Each blind man has a completely different picture/idea of the elephant depending on which part of the elephant he touches -- yet each man's description of the elephant is correct.

IMO this is the same problem we have defining drives. We can't see a drive because a drive is energy. We can only see the effects of a drive by the behavior(s) expressing it -- and most drives can have a variety of behaviors that may express it just like most behaviors can express a variety of drives. We can only feel our way along the road to experiencing drive (mood/emotion/feeling) -- and each of us will in all likelihood experience different parts at different times of whatever drive we are trying to define.

Do you still think it might be that easy to pigeonhole drives in simple definitions? I don't. IMO drives are a slippery slope -- the more we try to contain/confine them by exact definitions, the more we find it just ain't that simple -- which is probably why so many different drives have ended up being defined. JMO.

Is it just me, or does anyone else sense a return of the Dogmen? I think we've been down this road before... several times...

Pete: No. You are not alone . . .

Thanks, Joy. I'm going to copy my previous post over to the "unregistered dogs" thread, too.

And the pack begins to form...sensing weakness in the isolated victim... circling in preperation for the kill.......

Sorry I couldn't resist <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Let me try posting that URL again


Police dog Behavior