judy,
fwiw, i "got" it that you want to train your dog to ignore people. what i don't get is what purpose that serves. it sounds like you have a happy, confident dog just the way he is. what is gained by taking the risk that he could become suspicious and fearful of people? perhaps it is only a small risk, but it sounds like in your living situation, it could be a considerable liability if it happened.

if you don't want a ppd, or rather, accept that gunnar will never be one, then what do you achieve by requiring him to act against his own temperament?

I don't think she wants to change his inheritant nature; she just wants him to ACT a little differently. Not aggressive, just aloof. Teaching a dog to ignore is not going to damage him mentally, and if it did, well, then he certainly wasn't the stable dog we thought. At least I think that's what she wants, LOL.

I'm sorry Alice but I don't think you get it. Otherwise you would not even think to write, "why do I want to change his personality"? Your comment completely misses the mark and has nothing to do with my wishes for my dog.

Jenni, you are absolutely correct in what you said. I don't want to change his nature. But as I said in a previous post (and this reminder isn't meant for you Jenni), why can't he be taught to ignore people the same way I teach him to "leave it" (read: Ignore) a running squirrel, roadkill, a passing cat???? What is the difference? And why can't that ability to 'leave it' (he excels at this command by the way) be graduated to ignoring or 'leave it' where there are people offering treats or there are people like the kid this morning?

Why can't that be graduated even further to ignoring or 'leave it' regarding all people, under all circumstances unless I tell him it's OK?

I'm not stating anywhere that I'm never going to let anyone ever pet him again. I'm not stating anywhere that I'm going to teach Gunnar people are bad. I'm not stating anywhere that I'm going to erode his trust in people until it's completly annihilated.

When I originally posted, I thought I'd get answers on how to teach him to ignore people. Instead the thread took a wild left turn, never got back on track and as a result, I've gotten people preaching to me about the grave damage I'm going to do to my dog when I get what (you erroneously think) I want, how little I appreciate him, the ridiculous assumption that I want to give him away, and, of course, the liability and unpredictability of the savage dog that I'm hoping to create from my complete and astounding ignorance of all things dog.

I'm absolutely dumbfounded by everyone's desire to stay focused on what I never, ever even came remotely close to asking for.

Some of you get it. Some of you don't. The ones who get it have PMd me with some good tips for a start, like curbing the amount of times I let strangers pet him. Or calling him to me when someone goes to pet him.

Now if that type of training turns my dog into a snarling, vicious, unpredictable, confused, damaged basket of nerves, well then I will get back on the forum and apologize to each and every one of you.

Based on what I know about dogs, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that apology!

where in my post did i say you want to change his personality?

i asked a reasonable question: what benefit do you see in teaching him to ignore people?

During walks, I found that a small correction and a "look at me" or "fuss" would keep my gsd from paying too much attention to barking dogs in their yards. Very quickly, he learned to ignore these dogs and pay attention to me. This could work for ignoring people too, but it's possible the dog will just think that ignoring during walks is the rule and may not ignore while in other situations.

Maybe it's worth a try?

Just a thought...

Judy don't be hard on yourself, I to live with a kid magnet, he is the most social dog, I have personally ever owned friends and neighbours become family overnight, this has not deterred me tho I have continued to train him, he is either brain dead or bomb proof verdict is still out on this one, compared to my other dogs,he is a living anomlay, I was intending to PP train him but since he loves the world, I have decided to have fun with him
for now, he is still very dominant and a bit of a bully, with other dogs, but with kids he is a push over, give your boy some time to mature, I feel males don't really get it until about 3 or so, some are really slow maturers, he may surpise you, otherwise you may have to live with it, he sounds like a fantastic ambassador for the breed, I have countless requests for pups from my Bozo, so something must be right!
I guess when you get a pup with an intention of doing something goal focused in mind, it can be a wobbler....

I strongly believe that the protective instincts of the GSD are always there. Maybe Gunnar is good judge of character (most dogs are!), you'll never know. Like humans, I guess they can sense the harmless people from the fishy ones. We don't know exactly what goes on in their minds. Remember: Dogs know what you know and what you don't know. We just have to learn to trust our dogs and in the proven fact that dogs are not stupid.

 Quote: alice oliver

where in my post did i say you want to change his personality?

i asked a reasonable question: what benefit do you see in teaching him to ignore people?

You are right, I misquoted you. Here's what you really said: "...requiring him to act against his own temperament".

So I guess, even though his temperament tells me loud and clear every single day that he wants to play with every friggin' dog within a mile, I should allow this????

According to your theory, I should. Many dogs are dog aggressive, many others don't give a rat's a$$ about other dogs. My dog is so hooked on other dogs it's like a drug habit for him. And he doesn't get the social signals to back off while he's playing with the few dogs I allow him to play with. Even when they've had enough play/sniff time, and they give him a warning, he just doesn't want to quit. Now, Alice, that's his temperament. According to you, I should not intercede. I should allow him the sniff time/play time to his heart's content otherwise I'm "requiring him to act against his own temperament". I don't allow him to interact with strange dogs we pass but his temperament begs me to let him go say a proper hello. Again, according to you, I should allow this.

During one of Gunnar's evaluations, there was a cat in the yard that was pretty brave or very stupid. It sashayed out of the house right into Gunnar's path. Gunnar was on a leash and the owner of the cat said her cat's not scared of dogs will Gunnar be nice? Lady, I'd bet the farm he'll love your cat and love that cat he did! The cat got tired of Gunnar way before Gunnar got tired of the cat. Should I have allowed Gunnar to continue to play with the now irritated cat? It is his temperament after all?

There is a ferret story too but this post is going to be way too long. All I'll say is he and the ferret lived happily ever after!

Here is an outrageous true story of how Gunnar wants to interact with everything with a pulse: a raccoon made it's way into our yard. I did not see the animal and let Gunnar out to go to the bathroom. We have a fenced in yard. Well he made a mad dash over to it to...wait for it...you got it...to make friends! He stood there wagging his tail and was maybe 6 or 12 inches away from the animal. Now the raccoon was chattering his teeth and arching it's back and basically screaming, "Dog, get the f*ck away from me" but did my dog get it? Absolutely not. I had no leash and could only call my dog from a distance of about 8 feet. I did not want to get closer and cause the raccoon to think he was being surrounded so I stayed back. I'm sure by now you see this coming....according to you, that's his temperament and I should not require him to act against it. "Ah, go ahead Gunnar. You want to play? It's OK, you'll be safe".

I have only recently through a LOT of hard work gotten him to think just a little less about other dogs. I can now refocus him but it's not a permanent refocus. He'll still try and look back at the dog(s) and I have to redirect again and again. I'm working on this. Either I made a mistake with the first dog(s) I allowed him to get to know/meet or, it's his temperament. Whatever the case, it doesn't mean I have to allow interaction with the dogs!!

Do you really believe I should allow his temperament to rule our walks? Do you really believe I have damaged Gunnar by not allowing his own temperament to rule our walks? If you do, then I'm completely wasting my time posting this.

Now for people, just because he loves every Tom Dick and Harry doesn't mean I have to allow interaction. If I stop this interaction with strangers will it require him to act against his temperament? Well, yea, because he wants to say hi to everyone - infants, old people, men, people in wheelchairs, people with canes, kids swinging jackets, babies crying, homeless people, you name it. Nothing phases him and everyone is "special". Why do I want to require him to act against his own temperament? Here's why, I do NOT want him to think everyone is "special". It is not safe for him and it is not safe for me.

I stupidly thought when I got gas that the gas station attendant would be careful with the dog in the backseat and only stick his hand in the car at my window (to give me back my credit card). Nope. Twice (2 different guys) stuck their hand in the back seat reaching right across Gunnar!!! My mistake because you just never know and I absolutely thought for sure gas station guys would never do something so careless. It happened a second time because, I'm still in shock over this, I knew from the other time so I left his window open only 2 inches so the guy couldn't stick his hand in. Nope, he did. What did my dog do. Nothing. Nada. Zippo. Didn't move a muscle - both times.

Now either I have the most perfect dog in the entire world or he is just a little too laid back. Since it is a proven fact that there are rotten people in this world who would gladly do him or me harm, I'd prefer to go the "he's just a little too laid back" route and teach him to ignore dogs, raccoons, and oh yea, people. I don't live in rural No Neighbors, Wyoming. He has plenty of interaction with people on any given day due to my lifestyle and where I live. I'm not going to cut him off from all contact and have him live in a doggie bubble leaving him to cry and beg for some kind, any kind of human contact! Yeesh! I am, however, going to severely limit or completely cut off all petting by strangers. I will, however, teach him to leave it when some moronic dipshit calls him over. Time will tell if I've destroyed my dog by teaching this.

To all: my sincere apologies for the extremely long post.

Michelle and Geoff, thank you for the help. It is what I was looking for.

Judy, have no fear...training your dog to ignore other people is not going to make him suspicious & fearful of people.
I am not sure how re focusing your dog more to you will make him fearful of others.
As you already know, unfortuantely he's a social guy. But that doesn't mean you can't work on his focus. You can.
I think that cutting down on the amount of strangers you allow to pet a interact with him will help. He should think that all good things come from you and only you. Of course, you and I both know this will not make him some sort of protection dog as you have already stated you know he does not have the temperment for it. But it will make him realize that you are way way way more fun than any other outsider.
I don't want to keep hashing over the same things that other people have said. But if you need a little pep talk...pm me.
I have done this with my own dog, mainly because I know he has aggressive tendencies (total opposite of your guy) and I never wanted to take the risk of someone confusing him with a friendly-anyone-can-scratch-my-belly type of dog. So I taught him that other people are really something he doesn't want to bother with...why...because i am more fun, i always have treats, i give a good belly rub and I can play better than anyone else.
I think the ones that have understood your initial concern have given you excellent advice. Use it...things will come around for you and your pooch.
Oh, and I understand why people always want to pet him...he's adorable...sometimes that works against you! lol

i ask you about his interactions with harmless people, in your presence, and you go on and on and on and on about dogs, raccoons, cats, ferrets, etc. :roflmao:

you still didn't answer my question: since you know you are not going to turn him into a ppd, and he may never be people or poison proof (meaning you can't ever trust him alone in the yard or car, no matter how much training you do), what benefit do you see in teaching him to ignore harmless people when you are around?

we're not talking about him behaving himself on a walk. we're talking him about greeting the fed ex guy and the neighborhood teenager.

what benefit do you see in denying him their friendly attentions?

it can't be because he might get stolen, because you're right there. it can't be because he might bite, because you already see that he doesn't.

as for the kid at the gas station, it's the attendant you have to train in that situation, not your dog.

what are you so upset about? why should your dog only want to interact with you? my understanding is that that is the behavior required of working dogs, for good reason. it usually is not required of pets.

why do you want to require this of a pet?