Well, Kristel and Steve... you already know that I am in agreement with you. I appreciate your points of view and feel that you understand why I've done what I've done.

To Candi and Roger, I appreciate your POV's as well. I'm not in agreement, but you both have some very valid points. Also, I feel that you have presented your views, strongly, yet politely. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> For Mauricio's sake earlier in the thread, I hope that has helped him REALLY consider why he wants to crop or doesn't.

Hope to discuss (debate) on other topics at a later time.

Whether you're a floppy ear or cropped ear Dobe fancier, glad to see you here!

We also welcome all responsible Cane Corso owners as well! (Just for you Steve) <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And of course let's not forget Connie, our resident dog nutrionist. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (Btw, my girls are doing great on THK/ raw diet.)

Go Cat! For bringing on the peace <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Excellent way to wrap it up <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Dobies rule <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (and Cane Corsos, and GSD's....etc...etc.. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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Go Cat! For bringing on the peace <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Excellent way to wrap it up <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Dobies rule <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (and Cane Corsos, and GSD's....etc...etc.. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And thanks for the mention about nutrition. I want to point out that there are at least six* VERY knowledgeable canine nutrition folks here, such as Cindy, Alice, Shelley, Mike Armstrong, and lots more...... I just have the biggest mouth. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

*Six pop instantly into my head, so there must be dozens.

Greetings Everyone,

Ok. I've been monitoring this site on a regular basis because I was truly conflicted as to whether or not I should get my little Dobe's (Maximus) ears cropped. During the middle of the week, I contacted a local breeder and discussed the matter w/her. She was kind enough to offer the name of the vet she uses on her dogs.

I contacted the vet and we got his ears cropped yesterday (10/27/06).

I must be honest, I woke up yesterday still conflicted about the procedure. While driving there, I wasn't necessarily set on going through w/the procedure. I was probably more bent on not getting it done. After speaking w/the vet, she made me feel really comfortable and assured me that in her professional opinion, she did not believe that the dogs were in pain (if the procedure itself was successful). She indicated that the dogs do feel a little discomfort because they have their ears posted in a cup and that is not natural for them. From the looks of her office, she was an avid Dobe lover. She had pictures, throw blankets, paintings, etc. of dobermans all over the place (And I thought I loved my dobe!!!).

My wife and I left him there while he got his procedure done and during the interim, we took our other little pup (Mosholu: Mini Pin) out w/us. We took him to Petco and my wife put a Santa Claus hat on him. He was not happy about it and kept shaking his head to have the thing removed. It was really funny and cute.

When we picked up Maximus, he was really excited to see us and did not appear any different from when we dropped him off. He was hungry, playful and just amazing. I must admit, that it completely BROKE my heart to see him w/this cup posted on his head and the bottom of the sutures exposed (the cup itself was rapped).

Within the last 24 hrs, he hasn't shown any signs of pain or irritability. On occassion, he shakes his head because I'm sure he wants the dome removed (just like Mosholue when he had the Santa hat on). Other than that, HE'S DOING JUST FINE.

It has been a eal PITA from preventing him to sratch the top of his head and I'm sure that we are in for a real treat in the weeks ahead. Nonetheless, I'm real happy about his condition and delighted that the procedure hasn't changed his excited and humerous personality one bit. Prior to the procedure, he looked really cute w/the floppy ears. Now, w/more of his features exposed, he looks really handsome, intelligent, and regal. Everything that I expect out of the breed.

My wife and I have already decided that all future dogs will be dobermans, but I must admit that unless the breeder does it herself, I don't think that I will ever get the procedure done myself. Not because I'm against it or anything to that effect, it's just because I can't deal w/the angst.

I would like to thank all those who have dealt w/this before and offered their advice. On the other hand, when I posted my original blog, I wan't soliciting anyone's advice as to whether they thought it was cruel or inhumane.

Just the other day, some lady offered her unsolicited opinion about the matter and it just floored me that people really believe that they are entitled to express their opinions to complete strangers at whim.

After reading the first post, I was pressed to find any indications that she was looking for a debate on the matter. The way I read it, it appears as though she was seeking advice, like I was.

I do believe that Roger truly believes that ear cropping is cruel and unecessary. However, I don't believe this was the forum to express such views. Maybe he should open his own discussion topic to have this debate. I would also like to add, that unless Roger was born in the late '90's, I'm having a real hard time believing that it was only until he came to the US that he found dobermans w/their ears and tails docked. I too have been to England and various other European countries on numberous occasions and I have seen both cropped and uncropped Dobes.

I believe that this specific forum started w/someone seeking advice on the aftercare, etc. Please let's just try to stick to the specific topic and help those who are seeking help.

Once again, thanks to everyone who provided insight as to the procedure and the follow up care. I'll be seeking more advice in the days to come I'm sure!!!!

Cheers,

So good to hear that everything went well! It's true; until your pups ears no longer have any outward signs of being cropped (like posting) people WILL feel they have every right to offer their opinion. They don't; but I've learned over the years to ignore it. If I'm out with a pup and someone asks a ligitimate question, I'm always happy to answer; but if they want to offer criticism about something that's really none of their business, I play deaf. You're right that this thread was for information, not debate. I think that if this subject needs to go any more rounds, it should really be it's own topic. Thanks for letting us know how things went! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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....people WILL feel they have every right to offer their opinion. They don't .......

I disagree. I think they do.

And other people have the right to agree or not, to listen or not. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JMO.

Greetings,

Thank you for your well wishes, I really expreciate it.

Roger, you use some very interesting language to express your point of view. I truly believe that this issue is something that truly disturbs your senses. Nonetheless, your analogy about about observing a "Child or Animal" being beaten is unfitting.

That type of abuse is conducted in rage and with malicious intent on causing harm. In that type of scenerio, we should expect for bystanders to at the very least contact the appropriate authorities. Ear cropping however, is conducted under the direct and scrupolous supervision of a trained professional. That professional ensures that the procedure is performed w/due care and under the appropriate settings. With that in mind, the procedure is conducted in a humane manner where the needs of the patient are appropriately observed.

To label people who have their pets ears cropped in the same sentence as those who are maliciously, violently and recklessly committing a crime is irresponsible and wrong.

Although you are entitled to express your views and opinions, it is best to do so when solicited. This is not a political forum where you are entitled to express your views under the protection of "free speech". There is no government that recognizes such a right. You cannot waltz into the middle of a crowded venue and scream fire because you think you can.

Due care should be exercised when voicing your opinions and concerns. I don't believe that this was the forum for you to express yours.

If you like, I would be willing to debate you on this topic in another thread...maybe titled "Thoughts on Ear Cropping" as a suggestion. But in this instance, starting w/the initial posting, we were only seeking advice and guidance from those who have either experienced the procedure or could provide guidance.

FYI...the only reason why England and some other European nations have banned the procedure is because of "special interests" and people who have a strong desire to impose their views on the general public. Like in this country, time will tell that a small minority of people who are overly concerned w/the private affairs of others have done nothing but erode our natural liberties.

Cheers,

Roger,

I have started a new thread where this issue anyone and everyone is welcomed to express their thoughts and concerns regarding ear cropping.

I did so because I felt that the initial thread was seeking guidance and advise regarding post care procedures and/or advise.

I thought it would be more constructive to keep that flow of information free from others topics that have seemed to interfere with the original purpose of the thread.

Regards,