Whew, thanks, I was waiting for your thoughts. I have to digest this now. Everything in my mind was rationalizing why me doing it was the only thing to do. Your perspective makes a lot of sense, and I'm both somehow upset and relieved at the same time.

Chip, it's been a while since I logged on and I just got caught up on this thread...

MAN, I am SO so sorry to hear what you - and Rose - have been through, what a horror! From my perspective though, you've done an admirable job managing things to the best extent that you can, and your heart is OBVIOUSLY 110% with your girl - no fault in either (even though it can feel like we're making poor decisions in retrospect - there's no way to make a call from the future!).

I don't think there's much point in me adding much, though I can absolutely sympathize with many elements of this situation. Oscar was deathly ill (not an exaggeration) a few years ago with an unknown lung infection that had him in the ICU for 5 days - 24-hour monitored care because he was that touch and go... A lot of sleepless nights for me, and every day that I'd visit him was torture - I'd just sit in his little cubicle stall and we'd cry together... in the end, they never did figure out what it was, but they DID happen on an antibiotic that worked, and he made a miraculous recovery.

I will end with confirming what multiple others have said about pain meds effecting behavior - independent of their effects on pain. A vet once explained to me that for dogs that tend towards a strong, assertive personality, the woozy altered reality that heavy pain meds can induce is very unnerving, and can lead to stress at a sort of "loss of control" - some of the vocalizing is in response to this, not just "hurt". I don't know how the exact chemistry works, but I do know that Oscar, who is an "in command" kind of guy, gets VERY whiny and pitifully sad in the aftermath of any sedation - even if said sedation is for something entirely harmless, like x-rays. I don't doubt that Rose is in discomfort, given her awful ordeal, but she is likely also fussing out of sheer stress Poor, poor girl...

Oscar and I send our very best to both of you - and Shortstack! - and will be hoping for a speedy and safe recovery. That vet desensitization work can wait until she's back to her bouncy self...

Take care,
~N+O

Aw, Thank you!

Ok, took Rose in yesterday. We didn't remove the drain. #1, my vet said it's still draining very actively and could go another 24-48 hours. #2, Rose was not walking inside that building. I know since I offered to try the drain removal at home that I have kind of gotten myself stuck at least trying. But I will not restrain or hurt her -or her trust one bit more. If this doesn't go as perfectly as it would on a stuffed dog, I'm not gonna be the bad guy to her.

The vet got in the front seat of my car and we drove a few laps around the parking lot petting her and getting her guard down. I was able to get her T shirt pulled up to show everything, and vet explained to me where the stitches needed to come out, and in what order. I was able to snip the 1st one while Rose got a belly rub. Then the 2nd one can come later and should be easy -yeah right. This is a dog I run with, bike with, play frisbee with, and who runs laps around the yard over and over every night and now is being confined except when leash walked. If I crack a knuckle or the floor creaks, she pops up from sleep onto all fours. The last thing I want to do is drug her even more, so the drain might just stay in until the sutures go.
Also, she's starting to show interest in her body, nosing and licking herself. Her metacam just ran out yesterday, so there's nothing but Tramadol and Tylenol 3 from here on out. I haven't given her anything but her antibiotics today, she hasn't shown any signs of discomfort. I'll be taking her with me to work, and hopefully we'll have a good day there. It's far from the quiet environment I'd like to have her in, but I can keep an eye on her.

One last thing... I ran by my vets to get a Pro-Collar donut. Rose was as usual, upset to be at the vets. I signaled to the tech and she came out. I told her what I needed and she came out to the car and said she'd have to charge me for it. Of course, I said! Then she wouldn't hand it to me. I had to pay for it upfront. Even that wouldn't bother me, but I have a distressed dog in the car, and what is 40 bucks on top of the $4000 plus I'm into my vet already. I gave her my credit card, took the collar and told her with disgust I'd get my card later. I am WAY too emotional from all this. I have slept on the floor with a flashlight in my hand for 5 nights and am sleep deprived. I can't even tell if I should be outraged or embarrassed that I thought they could run a product out to me. And for what it's worth, that stupid donut collar stayed on her about 30 seconds.

I understand your distress. My cody was in the hospital for a week, nearly died. He was tramatized by being there for a week. When I brought him home, he was still very ill so we didn't have a hard time keeping him down. It has taken me a long time to get him to like the staff at our vet since his illness. But it has helped him tremendously. Maybe you could do that for your pups when it gets better. I would take him to the vet when he had no appointment and sit in the vets office-waiting room- with him for about a minute. Giving his favorite treats all the while he was there, then we would walk out and have a party. Then I would go back again in about a week and we'd stay longer, of course giving him big rewards for just being there. We did this for awhile. Then we had the girls in the back come out and give him a treat, They did this at times when it wasn't as busy, I usually did it early in the morning. Then I would have him go to the scale and get on and give him treats. Now he goes crazy when he sees the girls. I have to keep it up, and go down there a week or so before his appointments but he does very well. My vet has allowed me to have them take him in the back, (he still isn't happy with a male vet-this happened after the hospital stay. Now the girls take the treats with them into the back room and take his blood, or give him shots or clip his nails and treat away. He is doing worlds better. When he comes out, its just another party!
It is hard to see our pups so upset, it is worth the bat training to help them see the vet as something not as life shattering. I hope you pup recovers well and you do to...it is hard to watch our pups so sick and afraid too.

Hey folks, I just wanted to update. Everything is better than I could have expected a full week of having Rose home. I am no longer sleeping on the floor by the kennel and am back in my own bed now. The drain worked itself out after I cut the suture holding it inside loose, and I snipped the stitch holding it to her underside yesterday without too much fanfare. No pain meds at all for 48 hours, and started back to some RMB. Rose is happy and overly affectionate. And ravenous. I don't usually overfeed her, but she's getting 2nd helpings now that she's doing better and hungry. My biggest concern is how she wants to work, play, run. She goes to work with me now and is behind a counter for 9 hours. At home I have to leash her even in the yard because she runs for the joy of it. She's acting like a puppy upon finding a tennis ball, shaking it, putting her butt in the air, run/freeze/repeat. While it warms my heart and I'm thrilled she feels good, I *guess* I should still not allow any strenuous activity until the suture removal a week from now like I was told. I'm working up to long walks with her, we went 50 minutes tonight so she's already asleep and I trust her stitches are safe until time to go to work tomorrow.

Natalya -you were right, with the pain meds going, my happy confident dog started coming back. A couple of times she rolled and danced on her back (like after a bath) and torqued herself enough to yelp, but that was the extent of discomfort I could be sure of. It is so hard to know when a dog needs pain medication, and the comfort of having a clear head must factor in too. Oscar is a dear, and I appreciate his take on pain meds! Love your sig photo.

Sharon, I appreciate your take too. I'm still doing the vet drive bys. I don't know that Rose will ever like going to the vet again, but it can only get better with reps. Your sig photo is equally hard to look at without smiling!

I really appreciate everyone here, both your advice and knowing you are rooting for us. A week ago all I wanted was my dog for one more Christmas. Barring tragedy, that's now a given. And the histology report was promising, according to my vet. It's being mailed to me, I'll share its findings receiving them. Hopefully this just becomes an expensive bad memory and cancer never again visits my girl.

" It is so hard to know when a dog needs pain medication, and the comfort of having a clear head must factor in too. "



Chip, don't worry -- you have tramadol.

I would certainly use the heavy-duty pain meds when they are needed, because there's almost nothing more depressing and bad for overall health than unrelieved severe pain.

But for "should I or shouldn't I," IMHO, nothing beats tramadol.

It's not an NSAID (which, as I'm sure you know, even aspirin is), which needs to have baseline blood-work done before and during any extended protocol, and it also doesn't do that bewildering fuzzy-brain thing that the heavy narcotics do. (It even has some serotonin release effect.)

It doesn't have the anti-inflammation properties of an NSAID, and that's often needed, but for plain old pain relief, it has a lot going for it. JMHO.

Chip, that's great news about how well Rose is doing. Poor girl has been through the wringer, but it sounds like she's going to be okay!

Thanks, Cheri. As long as she doesn't rush the suture removal, I think we'll be okay!

Connie, I really feel like she is in no pain at all. She still pants when not warm or exercised at times, but it is only when away from home, so I attribute that to stress. She has been within feet of me 24/7 since coming home, and the only vocalizations in the last 3 days have come from doing things she didn't expect to hurt -jumping up, rolling around, etc. I'm 99% sure she's not even vocalized from that today. I haven't even given her Tramadol the last 3 days now. Her gait is back to normal, and she explodes into the car/etc. in spite of me coaxing her in easy.

It is so good to hear her tail banging into the hardwood floor again! I apologize for any posting etiquette I have fallen short on throughout this ordeal. My Mom had a knee replacement Monday, so I'm also trying to keep an eye on her and Hank (her dog) during all this. I have been tired and worried, but the worst is behind us.

 Quote: Chip Bridges

It is so good to hear her tail banging into the hardwood floor again! I apologize for any posting etiquette I have fallen short on throughout this ordeal. My Mom had a knee replacement Monday, so I'm also trying to keep an eye on her and Hank (her dog) during all this. I have been tired and worried, but the worst is behind us.

I'll bet that tail-wagging is indeed a welcome sign!


PS

"Tired and worried" is an understatement, I know.

Just another update. While I am still worried sick and losing my mind, it is over far less serious things than even four days ago when I last posted! Most importantly, I can sleep in my own bed through the night now. Vet said no strenuous exercise, but I could walk her as long as she wanted. She seems to want about 45-50 minutes a night. The first night, Shortstack didn't want to get dropped off at any lap, but since then, she's tapping out after the 2nd lap around the long block every night. So she sits on the porch and watches us all stoic, it's too cute. Rose and I take 3 more, and she sleeps through the night without even being able to think about her stitched up belly.

Rose is finally starting to settle in at the shop and no longer hops up and woofs at every person that walks in the door. But the downside to that now is the number of people who want to pet her. She is an extremely affectionate dog to me and my family, but she's kind of aloof to have in a pet store. There's no nice way to say, "She doesn't want you to pet her." Fortunately, I can explain she's uncomfortable from surgery and send Shorts out to dig up the squeezing and patting. Oddly, I have learned from this Rose does want about 75% of women to pet her. Most women that talk to her at the shop get her to come to the gate to see them, as opposed to 0% of strange males. I have to wonder if her time at the emergency vet didn't give her some gender bias -though in the past, I have never known her to particularly want a female stranger to meet and pet her unless she had a ball in her hand. Perhaps being bored behind a counter at work is the key factor, though.

Anyway, we're healing by the day over here. Rose is still leaking and draining way more than I would like to see but hopefully that is almost behind us. Wish my vet would swing by the shop and see her, I've hinted. Her suture area is really moist, and geez we seem way into this at 14 days later. She's only on Cephelexin at the moment, and I was never given any topical. Should I just continue to go with the dry T shirt, or would a triple antibiotic, Zymox, Vetermicin, type thing be better?
Like I said, still worried and not out of the woods, but hoping we see a clearing really soon! Thanks for your advice and well wishes.