Fortunately neither of our dogs has ever had to have their teeth cleaned and I've never done doggie brushings. The dentist who did the root canals indicated the bitch's teeth were free from plaque....he didn't have to do any cleaning.

In our case the lack of plaque is probably the result of LOTS of kong chewing (two-ball twice per day), raw-hide bones and thick dental chips. Plus our property is all sand, which when it gets on a ball or kong acts like an abrassive to the dogs teeth. That of course causes tooth wear too... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Did you know a dentist can tell from the wear on the teeth what your dog mostly chews on? He asked me because he fit a tennis ball in my dogs mouth - I assume she was still under anesthesia - and the pattern didn't fit. Told him the large kong was the toy of choice (the dog's choice, not mine) and that is the pattern: oval, not round!

You know I might not have bothered with a doggie dentist and put the growing lack of enthusiasm to tug and reluctance to bite a hard sleeve, on training issues. But I noticed a small brown pit on the top of each lower canine and could find only conflicting information as to whether dogs get cavities. So I paid for a "consultation" to see if there was a problem I should worry about.
The dentist indicated wear is normal and the dentine will normally overlay such areas over time. But when constant wear or a break exposes the pulp cavity for a while, bacteria can take hold and cause problems. Which is what happened to my dog...

This dentist took a look (brave soul, just pried open the dogs mouth!) and shone a small directional light through each canine. One lower tooth stood out as having a shadowy black line running vertically through it. The top teeth shone evenly opaque...and the dog refused anymore fiddling with her mouth to check the other lower canine. His measured conclusion was that the black-lined tooth was probably already "dead". Further Xrays (under anesthesia) revealed abscess under both lower canines. Having had a root canal not so long ago, I could recognize those ominous black areas on the digital images! (BTW, the doggie root canal costs about the same as mine did...!)

I had 3 choices:
do nothing - and risk the infection going into the jaw bone as both teeth had open canals still
extraction - takes care of the problem but no more bite work
root canal - the vet drills a small hole in the side of the tooth, cleans out the canal of pulp and nerve, and refills the cavity with a biological cement-like substance. The tooth is technically "dead" and will discolor with age. It will also become more brittle with age and break more easily.

Later options would be:
caps - if the tooth breaks above the gumline and there is enough left for a cap to adhere to
implants - if the tooth breaks below the gumline or vertically into the bone

I chose the root canal option. The infection is closed off, and now the antibiotic should clear it in a few days.
I tell this dog daily she better be grateful for my financial sacrifice....most dogs just have to live with their problems!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Any other suggestions for a senior with some green teeth (I know) that is not strong enough for anesthetic? She does eat some raw bones.

Thanks for everyone's helpful input, though I still am a bit confused but I guess this is where it comes down to "Do what makes the most sense for you and your dog"?

I asked the questions because of my dog Abbey that I put down last year. When she was aprrox 1 yr old, she had her teeth cleaned by a vet and was given so much anesthesia, I could smell it on her breath and she was stoned for 2-3 days. I decided I'd never put her through that again, not to mention all the horror stories I heard later from friends who lost dogs during teeth cleanings because of too much anesthesia.

Well, long story short, we had to put Abbey down last June, at age 13, because of a problem with her teeth and jaw bone. The numerous vets we went to could never determine if it was actually cancer in the bone that caused it to deteriorate, or if the teeth became infected down into the jawbone, which infected other teeth, and eventually the lower left jaw bone fractured and broken off like rotted wood. She had a hole in her chin for a few months that would close up (one vet said the lump was scar tissue healing over) only to abscess and open up again. Eventually I was feeding her mush by hand because we knew her days were numbered.

Thoughts of guilt have plagued me since - was it because we never had her teeth cleaned again? Was it really cancer and we just didn't catch it in time? I guess the thought that I could have done something "simple" to save her from all that is what I'm getting at.

Now that I have another Golden (a rescue, whose 3rd birthday is today) I just want to do things right. He actually has an appt tomorrow to have his teeth cleaned and I am a nervous wreck...asking myself do take him or not? I'm sure I will not sleep well tonight.

I will keep the RMB in mind but will not mention them to my vet because when I brought up the RAW diet questions before, she was very much against it...citing bacteria, etc.

Guess I just want to do what's best for my boy and not screw him up like I feel I probably did to Abbey.

Thanks again to all of you for your feedback.
Kate

Kate,
There are others on this thread with more experience than I, but personally I would insist on a blood panal prior to anesthesia.

It might cost extra (about $45 here) but would help put your mind to rest that you did everything you could to make this procedure safe...
The dentist I used does it automatically, ie, no option: you get and pay for a blood test.

Kate,

The question is, is your dog experiencing dental issues at the moment to warrant a cleaning (plaque, gum issues, abcess)? The old saying if it's not broken don't fix it has meaning <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . If your Golden does not have plaque build up or experiencing any issues then why are you getting a dental done on a three year old dog? With my experience with the clinic I worked for it was a money maker in the slow months..you know the whole 20% off in Jan and Feb for dentals. I agree dental health is a must but you can do it naturally without risking anesthia.

Will, I was just getting way too much exposure as the exotic dancer and super model. I had to draw the line somewhere <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I did worked for a vet for eight years..gotta love stuff behind the scenes things you learn <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Karmen,
We are doing the cleaning because his teeth are somewhat yellow and he has brown spots around the gumline on a few. His teeth were like this when we got him in July. Once this cleaning is done - I guess as a "fresh start" - it sounds like RMBs would help keep them clean, therefore avoiding unnecessary future cleanings (except for emergencies) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> And yes, I have heard dentals are "money makers" too...that's why I am torn between not knowing if it is really necessary (because of my prior experience), or if it's all just fluff.

Ann - I will definitely have the blood test done prior, although do you know how long they are good for? He just had one 3-4wks ago when he was being tested for allergies. Would those results also provide them with what they'd need for a blood panel?

 Quote:

I saw so many bad teeth and dogs suffering due to them in my year and a half working as a vet tech that I'm fine with the risk to cost ratio for vet dental care.

The vet specialist I went to would agree with that. He teaches animal dentistry at a state univerisity vet college once per week, so gets to see a lot of dental cases. But he says he also does a lot of work for K9 officers in this area and is pretty familiar with the stresses of bite work.
According to him most of his business on the K9's is fixing sub-standard dental work performed overseas on mals imported to this country. Says if trainers would just stop using pvc pipe, many of those dental issues would probably never occur. I reminded him that then he wouldn't have such a good income either!

 Quote:

I will definitely have the blood test done prior, although do you know how long they are good for? He just had one 3-4wks ago when he was being tested for allergies. Would those results also provide them with what they'd need for a blood panel?

Sorry, I can't answer that... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Maybe someone else has more experience with how long a blood test is valid. And of course you could always call the vet.
In addition, not all blood tests are the same. You would want one that tests liver and kidney functions and would tests for allergies include that? I don't know...

I will definitely have the blood test done prior, although do you know how long they are good for? He just had one 3-4wks ago when he was being tested for allergies. Would those results also provide them with what they'd need for a blood panel?'

Answer: probably not.
The blood work for an allergy panel ( usually a RAST panel ) only tells what an animal is allergic to.

The pre-anesthesia screening panel usually consists of a CBC ( complete Blood Count ) which measures the white blood count, a Hemoglobin and Hematocrite for testing anemia, and certain things like an MCH and such that I'm just not going to get into.
The chemistry portion of the pre-anesthesia blood work will evaluate the kidney function via a creatine level and a BUN ( Blood urea Nitrogen ), it will measure electrolytes such as sodium, potassium, and chloride.
More extensive testing may be done to evaluate liver function tests and traces like Calcium, etc.


Writing all that makes me glad that I'm not in the medical field now, either veterinary or human. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />|Re: doggy dentists|Will Rambeau|Will Rambeau|Wed Feb 23 14:32:00 2005|12.214.209.18|1|0|0|0
0010000507000018|0010000507000000|10|4984|

Thanks for the info Will!|Re: doggy dentists|Kate|Kate Kolbeck|Wed Feb 23 15:11:00 2005|216.199.12.3|1|0|0|0
0010000507000019|0010000507000000|10|5| Originally posted by Kate Kolbeck:
Karmen,
We are doing the cleaning because his teeth are somewhat yellow and he has brown spots around the gumline on a few. Yellow is just some staining/aging over time. Most dogs over time get the tinge of yellow to them (not all dogs have the tinge though cause diet has lots to do with it). The brown spots are start of plaque build up aka tartar. I would still stick with trying the RMB first but if you want to get a fresh start with a dental do the complete blood count (CBC)and a SMAC (blood chemistry)as Will states and then you would be up to date on his complete health.|Re: doggy dentists|Karmen|Karmen Byrd|Wed Feb 23 15:58:00 2005|12.40.148.19|1|0|0|0
0010000507000020|0010000507000000|10|1374|Laureen Moran wrote;
Any other suggestions for a senior with some green teeth (I know) that is not strong enough for anesthetic? She does eat some raw bones. Laureen,
Along with two gsd's we also have a 15 yr old cockapoo. Our daughter's dog that we inherited when she went to college...
This dog has lost most of it's teeth due to lack of care (I know) and now it's really too late to do cleaning under anesthesia due to her age. It is also too late to do much in the way of brushing the remaining teeth as her gums are not in too good a shape either.

So at this point, I've decided to just let things be. She gets a baby asprin every night for her arthritis and I'm hoping that helps diminish any mouth pain. I also feed her soft food now so it doesn't irritate her mouth.

I guess sometimes one just has to let nature run it's course...|Re: doggy dentists|Dogma|Ann Henderson|Wed Feb 23 17:41:00 2005|66.68.25.133|1|0|0|0
0010000507000021|0010000507000000|10|4984|I took your advice and bought soup bones for my Golden last night. Gave one to him and one to my Border Collie pup. The BC took off to a quiet spot in the yard to investigate this new, wonderful smelling thing. The Golden didn't have a clue what to do with it! He took it from me, dropped it, licked it, picked it up and went to the door to go inside. He stood there and whined until I called him back over. I dug out some the marrow from the center, which he liked, but when I gave it back to him, he just licked it, then got up and walked away. He never really did take an interest in it. It was almost as if he was thinking What am I supposed to do with THIS?

I looked for turkey necks but the local grocery doesn't carry them. Will check a few other stores and see if the big doof might like those better...