Quote: jennifer marshal

Yes they do indeed call it a pit bull, and Valerie I have seen the information posted for the breed now dubbed the "American Bully" but all information I have seen says these dogs are supposed to be pit bulls and/or amstaffs etc that have just been bred over the years to be that low-slung and massive.

The second dog is supposed to be a pit bull, and you can look up several bloodlines that breed dogs to look like that such as Dominion, Razors Edge, McCoy (though McCoy also has some very nice looking dogs that are not as "freakish" *IMO*) T's Top Dogs, The Bully Gang, etc. Razors Edge now calls their dogs American Bullies, that is a recent development and most of these kennels still refer to their dogs as pitbulls in order to sell them.

Jenni .. heh you don't believe that you never, or you don't believe that you ever thought the English Bulldog had anything to do with the APBT? Just curious

I don't believe that the English Bulldog in it's current form had anything to do with it, but it wasn't always so beer-keg-on-sticks like, the English Bulldog used to be just the Bulldog before it was bred to look cute and rolly polly after the ban on dog fighting/bull baiting. I just can't imagine an English Bulldog taking down a bull the way it looks now, it's kind of a funny thought once you get past the stupidity of the sport.

All the blood lines you have mentioned will admit to mixing an AS or APBT with a molosser for size and distilling of animal drive, hence the large sluggish appearance. Just very recently the outrage of true APBT owners with the registries helped enable the breed becoming seperate and distinct from the APBT. The goal of the bully was to invent a dog that looks like a PB but was bred to safely co-exist in a non-rural environment....more of a pet.

So lets get back to the correct lango, yes you can call an Am Bully a PB cuz there is no such breed as a Pit Bull. There is however an APBT, an American Stafforshire Terrier and a Staffy Bull Terrier. Pit Bull is used by most as a collection of the breeds mentioned above. When Jenni refers to a PB she is speaking to the APBT and she has herself a beaut...correct temperment and conformation and trained to the teeth. I have an APBT and an Am Staff...my girl is a cutie, my boy is a handsome old man...hee hee

So technically you can call any of these breeds PBs, but then you should specify which breed in the collection you are referring to, and any one that knows anything about the APBT will take one look at a RE and say..."bluff", another slang term for the American Bully.

Shame on me I didn't read it until now. I don't know if I would call those dogs pit bulls by todays standards as pitbulls are american pit bull terriers. I see a whole bunch of american bulldogs on that page. If all that information is true then I appear to have a pitbull by old definitions, a dog that was a boar/hog and bull catch dog, used for hunting, stock guarding and as a family pet.


"There is some terrier blood in the modern pit bull. Terrier blood was added, just as mastiff blood was also added." (quote from the site http://www.workingpitbull.com/history.htm )


My disctinction is the word terrier, the APBT today is a form of the original bull-and-terrier crosses IMO, hence the word terrier in the name of the breed. To me, today's dog is a different dog than back then, pitbulls then are not pitbulls now because of that terrier blood a lot of bloodlines for the APBT are nothing like the original working type "pit bull" and because of inbreeding and the use of "bullier" breeds you see the variety known as the American Bully, as pointed out earlier. The old family lines of APBT's are obvious crosses with terrier and not the "original" bully type.

Call me dense but reading that only confirms for me that the American Bulldog, while not a distinctly different breed with a different name until somewhat recently, was the original "bulldog" as far as form, purpose, and heritage. I don't think it is 100% pure, I do believe that through the years other breeds were used to maintain the types you see today but looking at all those old pictures of bulldogs, pitbulls, etc I see what many of the American Bulldog lines look like today. As far as working ability and what they are used for, I would say (completely JMO) that the American Bulldog is THE bulldog because despite outcrosses to maintain type in the AB when so much terrier blood was being used in the "pitbull" (APBT), they have stayed true to their original form and purpose.

http://www.americanbulldog.org/history.htm

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/american-bulldog-history.html

I hope I'm not coming off as too argumentative, I mean no disrespect, I had not until now heard of that version of the history of the "pit bull" and I just may be stubborn and dense about "my" breed the AB lol.

EDITED TO ADD* (after reading the post before mine that hadn't been posted when I started typing out that book of a post)

To me, "pit bull" means American Pit Bull Terrier I don't consider it a generalized term for bully breeds as the only current breed of dog with "pit" and "bull" in the name is the American Pit Bull Terrier.

The American Bulldog's *physical* attributes are, as of late, closer to some of the depicted dogs than SOME of the modern day Pit Bulls. And Val is right-I'm stubborn and will ONLY refer to the American Pit Bull Terrier when saying "Pit Bull" as it is the ONLY breed for which Pit Bull is a fitting nickname....since the word "Pit" is NOT in any of the others' names...

What Val is dead wrong about, however, is that Mia is "trained to the teeth." Good Lord, I'd be happy to keep that stubborn girl off of my countertops.

I didn't know we were arguing about breeds then and now; I thought we were distinguishing between breeds as they exist now.
I prefer the temperament of the APBT, but I agree that the AB is probably a better pet for most.

My girl is as sweet as they come toward friendly strangers, all children, and family, but she puts on a pretty good show defending her property, and no one has ever really put any pressure on her to see if she'd bite. My gut says she would, as she doesn't back down an inch, ever.

She will fight a big dog in an instant (although she is never the instigator), and she's tried to grab a horse by the nose. I found it interesting that that was her first reaction to a huge animal she'd never seen before. She is very sweet to my chihuahua, and sleeps next to my cats. Her prey drive is not over-the-top by any means, yet with only the slightest provocation, she will fight like she means it. I can never allow her to interact with other dogs who might try to dominate her. My GSD has made the mistake of bossing her around a couple times; now I have to keep them separated. The last time he broke through a door because he saw her eating outside.I dove at him and grabbed him around the neck to try to prevent him from advancing, but it was too late. He was already nearly at her bowl and she struck him right at the throat. My hand was over his throat, which she couldn't see due to the angle and how close he already was. She immediately realized it was me she'd gotten when I yelled and they immediately quit, both contrite. I thank God she did get me and backed off; I don't think she was going to let go of her intended target. She released so fast that I only have very small puncture scars from her top and bottom canines. Handler error...what can I say?

She is a great representative of the breed as far as temperament, conformation, etc. but how many people are truly willing to be as careful as necessary? Yes, she will fight. These dogs have been bred for generations to fight other dogs. We can't deny that, and I firmly believe that we are in dire straits because we try to downplay this aspect of the breed. We must acknowledge this in order to properly educate people on what they truly are. Hiding or masking, or glossing over the possibility for fights is not helping. People need to realize that this DOES NOT CARRY OVER TO PEOPLE. Dogs know the difference between a dog and a child, and I cannot stand to hear someone express concern that a dog who doesn't like other dogs is a "vicious" dog. Dog aggression can be worked with. I disagree that dogs should be branded "dangerous" due to dog aggression issues because most people think it means dangerous to people. Every time someone exclaims "He's never done that before!" about an attack on another animal, we can chalk up a point for the opposition who believes that these dogs are unpredictable. They're not unpredictable if you know what to expect and are properly prepared.

Mia is not dog aggressive. She has a strict "innocent until proven guilty" policy, but once proven guilty, look out! She does not pick fights, but if one is brought to her on a silver platter, she'll accept it graciously. These characteristics don't make her mean, vicious, untrustworthy, etc.-they make her a Pit Bull. She is what she is.

 Quote: jennifer marshal

To me, "pit bull" means American Pit Bull Terrier I don't consider it a generalized term for bully breeds as the only current breed of dog with "pit" and "bull" in the name is the American Pit Bull Terrier.

Wanna be my best friend?

You girls crack me up..but I do disagree with you Jenni...Mia is trained very well, and she sure knows her leader. Getting an APBT aka Pit Bull to live peacefully with other dogs is a shining example of trained to the teeth. Her respect for you has over come her genetics, and that is admirable, no ifs ands or buts. As for your counters, I am sure it is a covert operation...LOL. My boy APBT, coexists with my staff because he is not interested in being an alpha. They both live with two cats and my Old Lady cat is the boss...ever seen a cat put two dawgs in retreat with tail between their legs with a tone in her meow...quite comical.

To me the PB is an APBT, but Am Staff folks love to argue that point endlessly...oh well

I take no offense to any labeling, I know a PB when I see it and I luv PB folks....

 Quote: Valerie Tietz-Kelly

I do disagree with you Jenni...Mia is trained very well, and she sure knows her leader. Getting an APBT aka Pit Bull to live peacefully with other dogs is a shining example of trained to the teeth. Her respect for you has over come her genetics, and that is admirable, no ifs ands or buts. As for your counters, I am sure it is a covert operation...LOL.

Objection! Speculation! The only thing I will accept credit for is not allowing any of my dogs to have to defend themselves or their rank against another dog. I am in charge, and I do not allow fights. I correct my Chihuahua every bit as strongly as my GSDs and my APBT when he is out of line. My dogs do know that I am their protector and will not allow them to be harrassed by another dog, so they're not bad about fighting amongst themselves, even though they don't like each other. At all.

LoL sure, I will be your Best Friend, you've certainly proved you can talk dog even when I'm being a twit and not reading things right. Just be glad I don't type how I talk, I mess up more words when I speak than a two-year old does pounding on a keyboard! I think some days I sound like I'm saying those things .. lkdhftrhbdbjlddbebd! so there!