Quote: Amber Morgan

If I were you, I would walk him once or twice a day, not once a week, and I would do it in a place that only has *some* people, NOT lots of people. Again, gradually is better.
Amber

Thanks for all the responses! Just to clairify, we don't just walk him once a week.... we just walk him DOWNTOWN once a week. Every other day we take him on walks around the neighborhood and do lots of short and frequent training, fetch, and obedience sessions in our backyard. I just didn't want anyone to think that we only let our dog out for exercize once a week ;-)

But to your point Amber, I do realize that we need to take him out more often than once a week for socialization. My husband and I talked about this yesterday and decided that whenever we needed to take a short trip to Lowe's, the grocery store, Wal-Mart, etc, we'll take Gus with us and while one person goes in to do the errand, the other person will stay with Gus in the parking lot so that he can observe the commings and goings of people. We will be sure to keep treats with us so that willing passers-by can toss him a few treats. I will remember to keep these sessions short and simple, and ONLY praise confident behavior!

And, to answer the question about kids.... Gus is actually better around kids than he is around adults. He's also great around other dogs. So I'm hoping that these are all good signs, and that with a lot more socialization, done consistently and in baby steps, Gus will cross that line from fearful to aloof.

Hi there! You have gotten some great advice so far I just want to add in a handful of change (as I am often too long winded to have a post be considered 2 cents! lol)

I have dealt with dogs exactly as you describe Gus to be. My current pup, Duke (Dobermann/GSD), is 7 months was born wild and stayed wild until he was over 12 weeks of age. Zero human contact until the day I rescued him. Needless to say people are not his favorite creatures. Outside of the family and the frequent visitors he used to be fearful of people. He is currently just in the aloof stage but I have been working with him very intensely on this for the past 4 months.

My recommendations for dogs that have a tendency to plant and back when people approach is to get the dog gradually used to the body language of humans. A human that walks straight up to a dog and proceeds to lean over the dog with a hand outstretched looks to be displaying both dominant and aggressive behavior in the dogs eye - especially if the dog has ever encountered a human that uses body language purposefully in a dominant aggressive manner towards the dog. I.E. the previously mentioned daycare scenario.

We try to get dogs comfortable with the fact that humans(most of them) don't use body language the way a dog does, that some action or posture a human takes that means "AWW, come here cute doggie I wanna give you some love!!" to a human, rather than "I'm head honcho 'round these parts, submit or prepare to fight" when a dog does the same or similar posturing/use of bodylanguage.

A nervous dog will not always be nervous or react to this body language from accepted pack members. A dog can be perfectly comfortable with the dominance of its own pack and what "it's" humans body language means. A dog learns that certain behaviors from certain people mean certain things the same way a dog will observe which humans are the pushovers and which are dominant in it's own pack (in the average american dog household.)

A stranger that approaches exhibiting aggressive body language (in the dogs eye) to a dog that is already unsure of strangers, will cause various reactions from the dog depending on it's temperament. A dog that backs away with tail tucked and ears back, wide eyes, mouth shut with lips pulled back and tight, is afraid and stressed out.

Monitor the body language of Gus, when you notice him start to tense up, where his hind end seems to be getting lower and his tail is very low or curled under him, and his mouth is shut with the lips pulled back and tight, (often a dog this mervous will be looking around a lot, overly alert) but hasn't started to back away or shy away yet, make him sit or down. Draw his attention to you immediately.

I think you should bring that favorite ball of his along with you. I also agree not to flood him or attempt to sensory overload him, but I think pet stores are a great place to get a dog used to humans, and used to focusing on you instead of those humans. It is an atmosphere where dogs are common and will not always draw so much attention if it isn't wanted.

Bring that ball, keep your eyes on him. You may want to set up an exercise with him and someone you know that is a stranger to Gus so that you can monitor his body language in a controlled atmosphere first. Do it outside of the home, watch Gus's body language, the moment he starts to shut down into stress/nervous/uncertainty mode, bring out the ball, ask for his attention with the look at me game, make the "stranger" not come any closer but not retreat, and not looking at Gus in the eye.

Once Gus even glances at you as you are asking, give the ball as a reward. Try to keep his attention on you, say his name, show him the ball, put a hand on his collar. But do not praise or pet or coo to him if he is afraid and showing fear, especially not if he backs away. Also do not correct him unless he becomes aggressive. Do what you need to in order to get his focus on you. Ask him to sit, praise that sit! Praise his OB.

We need to condition him that backing away is not going to cause the person to go away, that showing fear and submission is not going to make the stranger leave him alone, but we don't want to push him. Have your friend walk parallel to you and Gus at a distance that is just barely within Gus's comfort level. Gus is likely to be quite distracted by the stranger, he may bump your leg or attempt to cross behind you, or run into you. Just keep walking at a steady pace, if this means keeping some tension on the leash for a little while or holding it at exactly the same spot to keep him the same distance from you, that is ok. He may lag-tug, then catch up quickly, and tug and look and bump you then catch up again, that is ok also. Just keep him moving forward at a medium-slow pace. Don't look at "the stranger", focus on Gus and your forward movement.

Ask for his attention, saying his name, or with use of the ball, etc to get him to look at you (the look at me game) and keep walking. Don't go too fast, but if he starts to lag a little keep walking forward, continue your forward movement to encourage him to also continue moving forward.

With the stranger walking with you, not towards, or away from you, you prevent Gus from feeling as if he is retreating, and also he is not being forced to advance on this stranger. He is not being submissive and fearful, or dominant and aggressive.

Have the stranger slowly get closer once Gus has been regularly obeying the look at me.

This, I find, is always a good place to start with shy or fearful dogs that have not displayed aggression. I never force a dog to advance or accept a scary thing, but I also never allow the dog to run away or retreat. When Gus becomes uncomfortable, put him in a sit-stay or a down-stay, ask for his attention, and do not allow him to back up to the end of the leash. If he does back up, have the person stop and not come any closer, and call him to your side, focus on him, block the other person with your body a little so that Gus knows you want him to advance towards YOU, you are not asking him to advance/approach the stranger.

No cooing or soft talking that could be taken as praise, but do not be harsh, just calm and firm.

Without seeing him myself it is hard to say how he will react to all this, how hard it will be to get his attention back on you, etc. But hopefully worth a shot for you. I wish you luck, please keep us posted on what you try and how Gus reacts!

~Jenn

What about a dog that doesn't even let her owner near her? We have a mini Aussie that was born at our house, grew up with us and was picked up and pestered like you do all pups! She is a beautiful dog is great at helping herd our horses. She has never offered to bite or snap at us or anyone else, but she prefers not to be touched? She has never been hit chased or had anything bad happen to her as far as I know. Every once in a while, she'll offer to let you scratch her tummy and if you can get her in a confined area (ie she goes in a large kennel when in heat)... she is great and will let you pet her, scratch her, pick her up, etc. But in the yard, forget it - she isn't afraid and doesn't crouch or anything, just doesn't let anyone get close enough to touch her? Could she pass this "trait" on if we ever decided to breed her? Thanks!

Was she raised with other dogs, having more contact with dogs and other animals than people? Or was she raised alone, inside or?
Does she run away when you attempt to pet her in an open area? How is her OB, esp her recall?
How old is she?
Where is she kept(inside with people or always outside away from people?)
How does she act when she is working? (you mentioned she herds your horses)
What does she do when you do catch her or find her in a confined space and pet her? Indifferent? Unsure? Nervous?

Dogs that are raised with other dogs are very "doggy" - they prefer contact with other dogs over humans. They do not see humans as sources of affection and possitive attention as they do with pack members (other dogs)

If she is kept outside, I suggest if you want to get her acclimated to humans more, to bring her indoors. Keep her on a lead and do not allow her to run away or move away when you ask her to come over to you.

Some dogs are just naturally more aloof than others, some dogs are almost solitary, being indifferent to goings on of the world. But I have noticed this more in dogs like the akbash dog, anatolian, and other stock breeds that are raised to be self sufficient. Not saying every member of those breeds is that way, met some very nice anatolians that were raised in homes.

I will not directly respond to your question regarding traits and breeding, that is a discussion better suited to it's own topic.

Thanks for the info! Yes, she has been an outside dog her whole life. We have 5 other Aussies that she "hangs with". She does run away when you go to her in "open space" - she's OK if she decides to come to you. She does great when she's working as far as minding (loading horses in trailer, etc.) but we aren't trying to mess with her then. When you confine her, she is fine, not nervous, unsure, or indifferent. Will even jump up to get attention.
I think you are right - perhaps being outside all the time since birth, she bonded with other dogs instead of us.
When we purchase a pup, we keep in inside for a week or so and slowly introduce it to the other dogs... and usually the Aussies perfer to be outside anyway. If we decide to keep a pup in the future, it would probably be a good idea to bring it in with us for awhile! Thanks for the suggestions!

 Quote: robin tipton

Could she pass this "trait" on if we ever decided to breed her? Thanks!

I'll answer this, because I think it's important. While I have not bred dogs, I have worked with many breeders, and I think any good breeder would tell you, yes--she absolutely could pass this trait on.

It doesn't even have to be a genetic thing, although it certainly could be. Those pups learn A LOT from their mother. How she responds to people is not going to be lost on the pups.

A shy animal shouldn't be bred, IMO. Being a really good breeder requires massive amounts of work and education. I'm not saying anything about you personally, but I will tell you that despite my experience with dogs, that responsibility is why I won't be a breeder, even though I think I'd like to. I know enough to know I don't know enough!

Anyway, Jennifer's right, this should be its own topic--I apologize. But if you want more opinions on this, you could post here and get some great responses from breeders. You could even PM Ed or Cindy, and if you search you'll get a ton of info as well.

So! Back to your regularly scheduled program!

Jennifer - Wow, thank you so much for that very detailed description of what we can do with Gus to help him get over this shyness. I can't thank you enough! I have some neighbors who I'm sure would be happy to help us with this, so I'm going to try it for sure. I think Gus would respond well to this technique, from what I've observed in him so far. I will definitely keep you posted on what we try and how he progresses!!

Thanks again!!

Liz -

P.S. I wanted to mention also that after the parallel walking exercise, only have the person helping you come closer if Gus is relaxed, not if he is still fearful. If Gus readily focuses his attention back on you and obeys the sit-stay with a real stranger or your helper, if he is still showing signs of stress and fear (ears laid flat back, mouth shut with lips pulled and tight, etc) then just leave it be that his good behavior of obeying you and sitting nicely gets him the reward of being left alone.

Some dogs, if forced to sit and then the person still comes at them for petting, will associate the sit with the person advancing and will then revert back to pulling away. That is if the dog is still stressed and afraid, if he is relaxed, have the person come closer, watching Gus for signs of nervousness. Take it slow.

He may never like strangers touching him, but we can hopefully at least get him to sit when approached, rather than pull back, plant, or run away.

Ok Jennifer, thanks for the update. The manerisms you describe (ears back, mouth shut with lips pulled back, butt lower than body, etc.) is EXACTLY what Gus is doing. When my Mom visited a couple months ago we went on walks, and Gus responded well to them, forgetting Mom was even there after a few minutes. I'll definitely start doing this again with some of our willing neighbors.

Again, I can't thank you enough for your detailed advice, especailly from someone who's done this successfully yourself, with a similarly fearful dog! I didn't know where to start before, but now I feel more confident that we can get ol' Gussie to feel less fearful, and NOT have his behavior progress into fear biting :-)