Lauren posted;

 Quote:

If you want to make money off of dogs, become a behaviorist. There are way too many ill tempered dogs out there because of the average
"breeder's" complete lack of knowledge of good temperment.

Lauren, not much truer words could have been written. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It's like my pup. I wanted a pup with the qualities to have her bred if she was suitable. well for some reason I just don't think she will be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> That does not stop her from being a top sport dog. Sometimes we have to make the best out of what life gives us. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lauren,
You obviously have me mistaken for some one else. First off if you were a Christian then you would know that how I treat a dog, cat or butterfly does not make me a Christian, rather it is about my faith in Christ Jesus and Him crucified. Not my works (how I treat a GSD) least I boast. My works are but filthy rags, I sin against God in thought word and deed, by what I have done and by what I leave undone. I do not love God with my whole heart, or my neighbor as myself. I justly deserve eternal punishment.
Rather, however, I humbly submit myself to those who are more knowledgable than I here on the Leerburg discussion board. I have owned a GSD for 2 years and am only now learning the mistakes I have made. I bred the dogs BEFORE coming to this board...I have done nothing but take advice, and warnings from this board. I have yet to go astray, for I realize what I have done.

I appreciate your responce, Eric. Breeding is not something I intented on getting into as a full or part-time hobby. I bred her for the wrong reasons...I wanted a pup from the dogs. There is a possiblility (which will be years from now) that I may get into breeding a higher quality dog. For now..I must concentrate on my 5 sons, I am not the type of mother who institutionalizes her children in daycare and such just to make more money. I care about them far to much for that. Breeding would do nothing but take time away from them...they are more important!!!

And Lauren...I have no intention to make money off dogs. Your posts are as far from pertaining to me as you can get. What you need to do is quit getting personal with your accusations and just answer the questions I post. If you can not do this, then please refrain from my questions...I am a lowly laymen who has come to this board for guidance.

I'm very glad you have decided against breeding dogs again. Please spay the female before you sell her, since she is obviously completely unsuitable to even produce just pets. Even if she did produce half decent pets, the shelters are euthanizing healthy pets every day.

When God gave humans dominion it also came with the responsibility of being good stewards of God's creation, which includes dogs. "Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men" (Colossians 2:19) It is not a question of being a Christian, but following the Bible. One follows the other. Just something to think about.

Sorry about that for everyone else, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

I can appreciate you really wanting to learn so as to avoid more big mistakes in the future. The smart thing would have been to rechearch as much as possible for years before breeding -but nobody's perfect. The most important thing is to learn from your mistakes.

A smart thing for you to do at this point would be to really 'follow-up' on all the pups you sold.
There is no other way to know their true characters and what you bred.

Aside from learning alot in this way, you should also learn to feel very, very responsible for them (even if they aren't yours anymore).

Following up on the puppies (keeping in touch for years with as many as you can) is the ONLY way to show you what you bred (the good AND the bad).
This is hard work -and one of the many reasons most dog lovers DO NOT breed.

Surely, the way they are raised is crucial to temperament but you will still learn alot when there are enough puppies to compare. Do NOT have faith in 'puppy-testing' in really means next to nothing. "Parent testing" is the most important thing -and following up. You don't need to visit them all the time -just a few times each year with a list of questions for the owners and a couple of smart 'tests' for their/your dogs.

Even seemingly PERFECT parents shouldn't be bred if their puppies 'follow-ups' show that they pass on regressive faults, or personality faults of previous generations. I know a Giant Schnauzer breeder who will NOT breed his BEST dog because the puppies of his two first (and only)breedings grew up to be TOO dominant. And he has been offered tens of thousands of dollars to change his mind...

What I am trying to say is that it is very probable that ALL the pups you just bred have bad nerves -one just began showing it earlier.
This is the way it USUALLY happens actually. Rarely are ALL the pups nervous wrecks at 2months old.

I have seen G.S.D.pups from a very similar breeding that seemed impressively tough and brave at 2 months but by 6 months had NO tolerance for new experiences. I followed the pups (five in all) till age 6yrs (just out of curiosity) and they were all a sad waste of anyone's time, 3 had very strange phobias too(ex. phone booths!). All were remarkably stupid dogs and problematic even as pets. Any mutt off the street would have been better for each family. That's what I mean by totally worthless.

I hate to say that about Gods creatures (I am Christian too) but GOD didn't make these dogs a MAN did. If God had his way, both parents would be dead because they didn't have the temperament to survive on this planet and if bred would have 'weakened' his better creations. This could start off a whole new debate because MANY breeds are practically man made and ailing and weak on purpose-are THEY all a waste of time? I can't say really-
does God recognise breeds?

But this is just my point: We must take full resposibility of our breedings and leave God out of it. Just food for thought. I wish you great luck in your future endeavors...

Yes, follow up on all the pups. Breeders need to take complete responsibility for the innocent lives they bring into this world. Make certain all of the pups are spayed/neutered. I like the idea of $$ incentives to the owners to get it done. Money talks.

And, also be prepared to buy some pups back when the nerve problems surface as the pups mature. You have no choice if an owner decides not to keep a pup, you must purchase the innocent creature back.

Please listen to Eric on what is involved in producing good dogs. His $$$ situation sounds exactly right. Can you really afford to breed?? Most folks can't.

Find your mentor, there are plenty of folks out there who know what they're doing.

FWIW, I get ems from *breeders* all the time trying to get referrals from me. I usually respond rather tersely (yeah, I know it's hard to believe I could be anything short of diplomatic) that I will *only* refer to breeders who breed to *the* standard (there is only one) which means titled parents (min of 4 generations of titles, etc, preference given if you can provide 7 gen of titling, xraying, etc), hip xrays, strong preference for elbows xrayed as well, *and* the breeder *must* have spent a minimum of 5 yrs training for Sch or other discipline that adequately tests temperament, esp nerves. Until you have had 5 yrs + out there handling dogs regularly and seeing them tested, you cannot and do not understand temperament. And these are only my bare minimum requirements if you would like referrals from me. I want lots of info on breeding goals as well.

Not surprisingly, my list of *refer to* breeders is quite short. But, when I do send someone to one of these folks, I can feel very good about it.

Stella,

Overall I really like what you have to say. But, you are putting too much emphasis on just the parents. You cannot overlook the influence further back, ie grandparents, great grandparents. Stuff can skip a generation or 2. You really want to be certain that you can go back further than the parents and see consistent producers of healthy, mentally sound dogs before you place any confidence in 2 dogs. Good parents really is no guarantee of anything. They could have been the only ones in their respective litters who weren't displastic, epileptic and insane. You must track sibs as well as parents, gps, etc.

Sorry all, the verse was Colossians 3:23. That's what happens when I have classes first thing in the morning and I'm looking at a new Bible (the numbers are in different places, I think I am going to pack up the new one and get the old one back out).