Re: Help! My 5mth old GSD pup has submissive pee..
[Re: Naeema White ]
#264808 - 02/09/2010 02:15 PM |
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have you tried ignorning her when you enter the room she's in?
Totally ignoring, no eye contact, no touching, no talking.
Just act like she's not there for a few minutes. Then after that you can pay attention but still keep it low key, no high pitched voice or too much attention. I would personally start with talking to her in a low key voice, but still with no eye contact or touching. Just say her name and converse (i know that sounds stupid but it may be too much for this dog to handle to have you touch & talk to her at the same time)so just talk to her about anything and everything, but don't look at her. Then if you feel she's calm enough and past the "im so excited to see you" stage reach down and give her a scratch on the head, still no eye contact and low key voice. Then if things are fine (no peeing) you can give eye contact but still keep everything low key, and keep the eye contact minimal.
although you say she just has to see people and pee's, chances are they are looking at her, which is all she would need to go into that submissive stage.
Make sure everyone ignores her completely when they first enter the house. And make sure they don't overwhelm her with "touch, voice & eye contact" all together. After a few minutes they can pet her, but not too much. And if they do go to pet her and she starts to pee they should not pet her at all, or if they are petting her and she starts to do the submissive peeing, the petting stops and you (or they) go back to ignoring her again until she's calm. Again, thats' rewarding to her if you touch her or give her attention while she's doing that.
edit: I meant to say that the touching and petting is only if the dog comes over to you, going towards her and looming are going to be counterproductive. Make sure the contact is when she feels comfortable enough and is coming up to you or people on her own.
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Re: Help! My 5mth old GSD pup has submissive pee..
[Re: Wendy Lefebvre ]
#264812 - 02/09/2010 02:54 PM |
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have you tried ignorning her when you enter the room she's in?
Totally ignoring, no eye contact, no touching, no talking.
Just act like she's not there for a few minutes.
This would be my advice. My young standard poodle is just about "cured" of this issue--but it took a few months.
You've got to ratchet down the energy in the room when you come and go from the house--but especially when you return home. There can be no big greetings. You have to pretend she's invisible. You have to wait for her energy level to be calm before you attempt to greet her or even approach her.
This isn't shunning her--it's not punishing. It's simply a way of telegraphing to the dog that your comings and goings aren't such a big deal that anybody needs to get worked up over it. Once she's calmed herself, then you can give her all the love and attention you want.
That's the goal here: teaching the dog self-control--not just of her bladder, but of her emotional state. She can choose not to get worked up into a lather every time you come home because she will see that coming and going mean nothing to you--you do it all the time, and nothing bad (or good) ever happens much. And she will quickly learn that excited energy gets no reinforcement from you--because you'll ignore her. When she's calm, she gets the attention she wants.
And you cannot correct her for submissive urination. Telling her "no" for this is counter-productive. She can't help it, and it will likely make her pee worse if you scold her while she's doing it. It's not a housebreaking issue, per se.
Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon |
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Re: Help! My 5mth old GSD pup has submissive pee..
[Re: Tracy Collins ]
#264813 - 02/09/2010 03:04 PM |
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And you cannot correct her for submissive urination. Telling her "no" for this is counter-productive. She can't help it, and it will likely make her pee worse if you scold her while she's doing it. It's not a housebreaking issue, per se.
Totally agree.
"It's better to be an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right" |
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Re: Help! My 5mth old GSD pup has submissive pee..
[Re: Lindsay Janes ]
#265025 - 02/11/2010 11:19 AM |
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Hello, everyone! Thank you for the advice. I have ignored her when I come into the room. She did the submissive pee in the morning so I put her out in the pen and ignore her. I know this may sound mean but she doesnt mind it at the same time. I was going to clean her outdoor kennel and as soon as she started to pee I sprayed her with the hose under belly and she stop. I will have to say she didnt pee in front of me for the rest of the day. She did however pee'd on her own time outside. Didnt have any accidents or submissive pee at all. She began to open up with the other dogs finally after two weeks of being in her new home and she started to play with a ball plus a rope toy after two weeks of not touching any type of toy. I took her to tractor supply today and she did excellent even though she was a bit nervous to the worker she did not pee. I also took her to the police station to meet family and she did excellent at first she was a bit nervous but they got down on her level and she went up to them on her own(still a bit nervous). I have been talking to her in a low key voice and less eye contact unless I am training her to sit and lay down so she knows to look for what to do next. I got up this morning and no pee (so happy)! She did tinkle a bit only because I made the mistake of bending over her to put on a collar to go to TS today. It is a slow working progress but its working so far. I take her out extra minutes from her 4 times a day to potty and play. I dont know how to put pictures on here so I would like for everyone to see her and the family. Thank you again I will let you know how she is doing for the weeks to come....
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Re: Help! My 5mth old GSD pup has submissive pee..
[Re: Naeema White ]
#265033 - 02/11/2010 01:15 PM |
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Naeema, this is great news! It sounds like the little one's poised to do a full 180! Or maybe close to it.
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Re: Help! My 5mth old GSD pup has submissive pee..
[Re: Naeema White ]
#265035 - 02/11/2010 01:17 PM |
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The socialization you're doing is great--and I'm glad she seems to be coming out of her shyness and gaining some confidence. One thing you mentioned, though, isn't something I'd continue:
as soon as she started to pee I sprayed her with the hose under belly and she stop. I will have to say she didnt pee in front of me for the rest of the day.
I don't think you should offer any kind of negative correction on her for any kind of peeing. You don't want her to "hide" from you to pee because she thinks something about peeing in general always upsets you. Instead, I think what you want is to praise her for peeing in appropriate places.
Cinco | Jack | Fanny | Ellie | Chip | Deacon |
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Re: Help! My 5mth old GSD pup has submissive pee..
[Re: Tracy Collins ]
#265037 - 02/11/2010 01:22 PM |
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.... I don't think you should offer any kind of negative correction on her for any kind of peeing. You don't want her to "hide" from you to pee because she thinks something about peeing in general always upsets you. Instead, I think what you want is to praise her for peeing in appropriate places.
Heartfelt agreement, that I don't want the dog to perceive anxiety/annoyance/disapproval around any kind of necessary body function, and I especially don't ever want to correct for submissive urination.
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Re: Help! My 5mth old GSD pup has submissive pee..
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#265102 - 02/12/2010 01:13 PM |
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This dog needs to be protected from all that causes her concern. Get the "Ruff Love" book sold here at Leerburg. Submissive urination is the dog "submitting" to whatever the stressor is. Correcting the dog when she is already submitting is cruel. Ignore the behavior, restrict people from touching her, stop interaction with other dogs until she gets thru this fear period. She should be going to lots of places, building her trust in you and learning how to learn. I also recommend the Marker Training video and also The Power of using Food with Michael Ellis. Tether the dog to you will help her not only to bond to you, but trust that you will protect her. She doesn't trust you, or her world. Please, please, please, start this dog on a program of desentization to hopefully help her learn to cope.
This behavior can lead to a dog that bites in fear.......really important to do the best you can for her based upon her tempermant.
Keep us posted and let me know your progress.
Roni
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Re: Help! My 5mth old GSD pup has submissive pee..
[Re: Roni Hoff ]
#265142 - 02/13/2010 10:01 AM |
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Hello, thank you again! I never did that water spray again and dont plan to unless she wants to play with water like my male who goes crazy for any thing that fly's pass him.
Update!
It has been two days now and no submissive pee. We are waiting for the weather to clear up to take her out again. She loves water, I let her out today she ran back and forth for a bit to both doors until she felt comfortable enough to explore the yard a bit when I am inside and outside with her! She already obeys sit, I am teaching her to lay down(go to bed) load up in car and out. Not too much since she still has to open her mind and gain trust. I now take her out to potty first and after she does her potty I allow her to play with toys outside and incase she has to pee again she can before going inside to play with the household members or toys to get her to feel comfortable in the house. She does a lot of eye contact with me when she wants to make sure it is ok. I still give her less I contact. No one really touches her as she is always in my room and when I am not home they have to take her out for me so far she is getting a little better with that. She is very sweet, nice, and calm only hyper when it is time to play. I am so happy she shows interest in a ball because I love to play ball with the dogs, my male has great ball drives. We are going to have a puppy day on wednesday to see how she reacts to other puppies around her age 5mths.... Today no submissive pee so far but last night she did have an accident from holding her pee in since the rainy weather we had here in Florida... I will look into the marker training video! Thank you a new update will be on Wednesday or Thursday....
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Re: Help! My 5mth old GSD pup has submissive pee..
[Re: Naeema White ]
#265243 - 02/14/2010 07:26 PM |
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Please make sure that your dog is not dominated by any other dogs. I don't like classes that allow puppies to play as I cannot control the other dogs. You must protect your dog. Ok to go to a class that all the dogs stay on leash. We just don't want anyone or any other animal to cause your pup concern.
Great progress report!
Roni
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