Hi everyone. I no long have this dog, but my experience with it has made me leary. If my behavior at all caused this I would like to know so I don't do it again as I'm raising a 4.5 mo old GSD from the pound: Got an F Shep/Akita X from the local SPCA at 8 wks. Was told it was a shep/lab X (HOW WRONG THEY WERE!)

Not my first dog. Tried to socialize it - took it out at much as possible to the local park, my work, walks, etc. Did obedience train it. It was not a submissive pup. Everything seemed fine until it was about 1.5 yrs old. That's when it got really "skittish". Became afraid of pretty much everything. I continued with taking her out all over the place. I did not reassure her ("It's ok" etc.). I pretty much ignored the behavior.

This went on for about 6 mos or so. Then it just went 180 - completely seemed to lose all fear. First "incident" was when me, my baby (human) and dog were sitting in the front yard. Dog was in a down in front of me. I noticed her ears perk up and without further warning she sailed into the air over my head. I caught her by the hind leg and yanked her down - barely missed the mailman who was cutting across the lawn behind me.

On walks she would be well behaved unless a man would walk up behind me, then she would lunge around and try to bite the person. This behavior appeared to be directed towards men and usually when they come from behind. If it was't from behind it would be from someone walking directly towards us quickly.

She also would try to bite new male people who were invited into our house if they moved around too quickly initially. If the person was calm and let her sniff and check them out for about 15 mins, she'd be fine. She actually tried to go around me to bite some guy in our house when I told him to move slow and he didn't. ("Oh-I like dogs." and he reached around me to pet her.)

I had a blind friend (female) who was introduced to her calmly and she was ok, until my friend took my elbow (to be led). Then my friend said "uh oh, your dog has my other hand in her mouth". Dog did not bite, but held her hand and "escorted" her until I told the dog to go away.

This wasn't everyday behavior so it maybe took me 6 mos to a year (I can't remember) to figure out I had a problem. Yes, I had slacked on the proofing part of training. We had this dog for 8 years. It was never allowed off leash. I ended up taking her through 3 obedience classes, not because she didn't know the commands, but to work her in a controlled environment. If she was barking, I didn't worry. Her biting/biting attempts always happened with no sound so when she was quiet and alert that was when I was on guard.

Unfortunately, I didn't stumble into this site until after putting her down about a year ago. She was just too much to continue managing. While the behavior was "under control" through the obedience, I don't believe she was ever trustworthy and we had her put down. Just too many "almost" bites.

I was told by trainers and akita breeders that this behavior was just the akita in her. Some others just put a lot of blame on me for ruining the dog and blaming akita blood in her. I never really got what I would consider solid advice as to how I ruined her, if I did. I want to know so I don't repeat whatever it was I did to "ruin" the dog. Like I said, this was not my first dog. My prior two dogs (both shep X) were really nice-also obedience trained, and trustworthy off leash. They both went by natural causes.

I am a harder disciplinarian than my husband, so I don't think he ever did anything to make her hate men. Liked him just fine. Liked my child and her friends just fine. Actually was very friendly with kids in the park and in our yard. My child could command her to sit and down and take food, toys, etc away without a problem. Never aggressive with the family. In case it's important - she was very dog aggressive, but was fine with a corgi mix male I brought home. I also have other animals - cats, birds, rabbits - and she learned she couldn't touch those. But she did kill a neighbor's cat that came into our yard. Seemed like if I brought it home, it was ok, she'd respect that. Oh-She would steal food off the counter either once trained. You could leave a steak and she wouldn't touch it.

SORRY SO LONG!! I really want to know and I don't know what's important to tell and what's not.
Thanks again.

I do not know much about the Akita breed. I do understand that they can be somewhat aggressive, but so can any other breed of animal, that it not necessarily your problem. That is like telling me just because I own a pit bull, he will be aggressive, regardless. To blame it on the breed is not sufficient. Somewhere along the way the dog changed. It could have been the fact the dog matured, and when that happens everything is different to the dog. Just like when children hit their teenage years......hold on for the ride!

To me, it sounds like the dog had weak nerves, that didn't necessarily show up (atleast that you could recognize) until about 1.5 years old. You say the dog seemed to do a 180, but perhaps it wasn't really an about face. The dog was still weak nerved, or skittish as you described, but to you it looked like the dog seemed fearless. The dog might be what some call a fear biter. They bite, not because they are dominant, or even aggressive, but because they are afraid in certain situations. You said the behavior was somewhat spuratic, case in point.

It is my understanding that weak nerves are a matter of genetics. It can be addressed; just because a dog is weak nerved does not mean they will bite; it just means there is a problem that needs to watched over.

It is a shame you had to put the dog down. It might not have been the training, yet, it very well could have been; though you didn't view it as training. It might have been a problem that you didn't recognize initially and as a result praised the dog for behaving a certain way. As an example, you take the dog out in public, the dog is nervous, anxious, wanting to lash out, etc., you then praise the dog to help calm it down. Is the dog seeing this as calming or as encouraging their behavior? Over time that grows into bigger and badder things, biting out of that fear, etc.

I could be way off the mark here, and I am sure others will have something to say about that. Others are certainly more qualified to offer an answer, so please don't look at this post as gospel by any means. Just my thoughts. Good luck and don't get discouraged! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I understand I can't just blame the "akita in her." I wasn't trying to. I'm just saying what I was being told by people supposedly knowledgable with Akitas.

I said I DID NOT reassure her ("it's ok"), I ignored the fearfulness. I figured it was some sort of "teenage" thing and was working on "riding it out." I think maybe that's why I didn't realize it was a problem for some time.

Her behavior wasn't sporadic. What I said was "it wasn't an everyday occurance". That's because we didn't have strangers coming into the house EVERYDAY, we didn't have strangers walking up from behind EVERYDAY, etc. Her reactions to these situations were pretty much consistent.

Originally from checking out this site I pegged it as fear aggression, but after reading the posts in this forum I'm not sure.

Again, I want clarification of the behavior and WHAT I MAY HAVE DONE TO CONTRIBUTE TO IT so I don't do it again. Completely agree with the weak nerves 100%. That's obvious or else she wouldn't have been so sharp?

So, how do I tell weak nerves in a 5 mo old puppy? Is there a particular way to raise a puppy with weak nerves so I don't get a repeat of this last dog?

Sorry, I don't think you've given me any input that I haven't already received. Thanks anyway.

Roz
I to am not an expert but it sounds to me like you did what you thought was the best for the dog at the time and did address issues as they came up. I had 2 Akita's that I fostered, expecting the worst out of them because that is what I was told, it turned out to be just the oppisite. Sometimes when you get a dog from a shelter, which is a great thing to do, you just don't know enough about their backround untill they get closer to maturity and that is when alot of things show up.That can go for any mix breed because tracing their bloodlines is almost impossiable. Weak nerves seems to be a good point and probably was the case. With my pup I do not reward him for uneasy beahvior but I calm him or reassure him that it's ok buy saying "Easy" "Relax", and then try to devert his attention away from what is making him nervous by having him focus on me. It's a shame you had to put her down but if you were that uncomfortable with her behavior then you did the right thing which alot of people don't do untill something very bad happens. If you continue with a good solid OB plan with your new pup and just be aware of things as they surface and handle them accordingly you are on the right track. Don't beat yourself up about the past learn from it and go forward. Good luck with your new pup.

Ann and Lisa - Thanks for your input. That was what I was looking for-specifics as to what "may" have contributed to the behavior and other approaches to take if it comes up with my new pup.

I've read a lot about "you have to be careful when the pup goes through a fear phase", but not a lot of specifics as to what that means. I thought I was doing the right thing by ignoring the fear and hoping she would take a cue from my confidence.

Also, from reading Mr. Frawley's articles he doesn't believe in a "fearful" phase. I think I tend to agree with that. The two dogs prior to the akita/shep never seemed to go through noticable fear periods. Not that they were fearless. Sure some things/events spooked them, scared them, made them act uneasy, but they seemed to get over it. Further, there was never any question with the other two about biting. I feel a family pet needs to be resilient.

I'm not a believer in bites that "come out of nowhere". There are signs. Sometimes you just can't put your finger on them.

With the akita/shep there had never been any question about her safety with my family until a series of events during the six months prior to putting her down. Maybe she would have never bit us - I'll never know. I do know that if my 7 yo daughter were to have been bitten, I'd never forgive myself for ignoring the "signs".

It was not a snap decision to put the dog down, or else we would have when she was about 2 yo. I just keep in mind that she probably lived 6 years longer than she would have otherwise, and a friend of mine always said there are too many nice dogs out there to put up with a biting dog.

I do have more puppy questions, but I'll go post that in the puppy section.

I'M TRYING!! REALLY! THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think I was trying to say what the ladies said. Maybe it came out in a more complex way. Anyway, learn, and move on with success.