Hey Ellen,

I've got to completely agree with Mara and what I think Connie was getting at.

I too think you're reading a lot into this dominant thing when it really is the only way he knows how to protect himself and communicate with you. He's trying to build that bond, figure out his new people and what works in his world.

To me it's pretty simple, especially with rescues. Ignore what you don't like and train a behavior that you do want in its place.

Like if you don't want him going in the bedroom, show him how much better it is just outside the door. Call him out, lure him out with a yummy treat if you have to and reward him for ending up in a place that is acceptable. Fill a treat ball that he can relax with in that spot. Once he consistently understands where his place is, he will start understanding where it is not and the corrections for it. You won't get so much back talk.

He's been placed in the basement with dogs that he doesn't care for. He's probably had a few forced meet and greets with excited, reactive dogs and has now taken on the "No, you don't just want to play, you're aggressive and ill mannered and I'm not having any of it" attitude. Personally, I don't blame him.

He now gets "No'd", leash corrections and his breath taken away for his efforts in trying to keep these dogs out of his face. As you've said, it's escalating so he's also not understanding the corrections. Lose, lose situation.

I too rescued a very segregated dog. Didn't see the outside of his fenced yard BUT, he had also not been exposed to a lot of dogs. This was one area I knew we had a clean slate to start with.

He was introduced to my then, two older, very sedate dogs on neutral ground. The meet and greet was calm and respectful and everyone has gets along famously.

He has no dog aggression issues. Dogs can bark and bounce all around him but he knows that I will never put him in a situation that he has to defend himself against a dog that "is just being friendly". Read that sarcastically because most owners don't have a clue how to read the rude behavior of their over excited, under exercised dogs and are looking for other dogs to do the work for them. It doesn't usually end up pretty, as you're now experiencing.

I know you know this, but there's a lot more to leadership than simply putting a dog in a crate. The crate is a sort of forced confinement while you're training him to contain himself and follow your directions without the walls.

As Mara has questioned, what are the top three things you want to work on right now? When you start to get some consistent success and you've really opened up those lines of communication, you'll know when it's time to start reducing the crate time.

Personally, I'd be working Obedience (Sit, Stand, Down, Heel) up and down your building's hallway. Late at night, really early in the morning. Allow him to learn and really understand those commands in that particular venue.

The secure walls of crate are just as much for changing your approach as they are for teaching him about your control. It's not a magic bullet and doesn't do it automatically though. It's what you do when he's out of the crate that will forge that true respectful relationship.

And again please, protect him from the other dogs so he doesn't have to. He's telling you that those relationships are too confusing right now, he's still trying to figure his leaders out.

You need to show him what a trusting leader is. Keep it simple, keep him safe.

He's sounds like a really fun pup, just some stuff work out and I'm sure the folks here can offer a lot of help. Welcome!!!

I just have a minute right now, but this paragraph is uber-important:

"What are the top 3-4 behaviors that you want from him? How have you gone about training them? If you need help, we can certainly help you out with ideas in truing them!! I think it's always a good idea to try to focus on figuring out how to train and highly reward what we want more than try to extinguish what we don't want. Your dog focuses on what you focus on."

Upbeat marker sessions!

Focus on behavior you want. The "demanding" stuff will extinguish itself when it's not rewarded (and it will take a while, because it has been rewarded in the past, but that's OK). Ignore it. The dog won't continue to use behavior that never works.

Have you read here any of the desensitizing threads? I would. And for now, I would definitely march right on by, myself between my dog and the trigger. I would not be stopped long enough to have to even think about hanging the dog. (This is why I asked about avoiding elevator rides with other dogs.)

I can dig up desensitizing threads later today if you haven't seen them. This is a method that (1) works, (2) enhances your bond, and (3) has the added benefit of developing bullet-proof focus and ob.

You've received some great answers.

Thanks everyone! This is all very valuable input and I've reflected on it and shared some of it with my fiancee. It us put in perspective the big picture considering that the dog is adjusting too, to a new home and role with many inconsistencies and mistakes. He is overall a great dog that just needs more consistent guidance and better trainer owners =)

Sorry its taken a couple days to reply, its been a long long work year-end week. It did give me some time to think about your questions. Here are what are the top 3 changes I want from Latte:

#1 No more dog reactivity. (he has be really really great away from the apartment now, and if he does start to stare, we have also been able to draw him out of it with light corrections)

#2 No biting/being mouthy or aggression towards people (he seems distrustful of strangers who pet hi (handler error!) and we need to rebuild trust with him from previous harsh corrections but this hasnt been a frequent issue)

#3 More obedient mindset, enjoy learning and offering what we seek from him (had not been the case previously, usually he was extremely overexcited by food).

Listing those things out, I realize that our role as handler is going to be the biggest determinant in how successfully we achieve that with Latte, and giving time to build a trusting relationship after a rocky mixed start. For #3, I'm not sure how we will address this but we will be watching the Basic Obedience DVD soon so that we can both me consistent in our training with him. I think I used too many treats before in a way that excited him (treats always visible, he was not in a calm state, etc.)

CJ said:

He's been placed in the basement with dogs that he doesn't care for. He's probably had a few forced meet and greets with excited, reactive dogs and has now taken on the "No, you don't just want to play, you're aggressive and ill mannered and I'm not having any of it" attitude. Personally, I don't blame him.

He now gets "No'd", leash corrections and his breath taken away for his efforts in trying to keep these dogs out of his face. As you've said, it's escalating so he's also not understanding the corrections. Lose, lose situation.

Very true. This has finally clicked with me after reflecting on what it must be like for an uncertain animal. I had to tell my fiancee earlier this week to just keep walking when we ran into dogs around the building. Up till recently we have been trying to make him sit and try to be calm in the face of his heightened state.

Mara: training had been inconsistent before we started over. Latte was highly motivated (or distracted!) by treats in most cases, so I guess I was baiting him to learn what I wanted. We'll watch the Basic DVD and come up with a plan and come back for help if needed!

Connie, I have read information about desensitization and decreasing the radius of the trigger, etc. If you happen to find some threads, that would be great. We'll maybe try that in time. Right now I always move to the other side of the road if other dogs are passing and I always keep myself between him and the dog.

Finally, in response to everyone's opinion that our dog may not be that dominant, I can see that to be true as well. He can be demanding and hardheaded, but he was probably also confused and trying to work things out with two confused packmates (us!) We do hope that he will be more relaxed and balanced to not have the burden of leading on his shoulders.

And in a final update, Mr. Latte has graduated as of this from his crate after about 3 1/2 weeks in the crate fulltime. He now gets several short sessions tethered outside his crate. He often lays down by the door when waiting for his walk. Long walks have been great, and lately I've been walking him to a bike trail I discovered so that he can enjoy some real nature. He also seems to like petting more now that we've withheld it for some time,and will every so often give a very tiny lick =)

Here are a few questions:

1) My fiancee wants to know whether we should be correcting him for lunging at squirrels and rabbits on walks. I remember reading on these forums that a balanced dog should have prey drive. However, since we are leading him on a walk we're not sure if we as leaders should be controlling & correcting his chasing.

2) Should we keep the dog on a close leash and not let him walk? This is how we have been walking him for a long time. He is always next to us, never full body in front unless we release him to "get busy". Lately he will sometimes even walk slightly behind us, so this has been working out well so far. However I wonder if it prevents him from enjoying his walks.

3) Latte seems to love his rear area being pet (on his back near his tail). He moves around on his hind feet and arches his back trying to push into us. Im wondering if this is being dominant?

Thanks and have a great weekend. I may be back later to try to post some pictures. =)

Here are a few things I do. Back later with desensitizing links.

Your goals are doable.

1) My fiancee wants to know whether we should be correcting him for lunging at squirrels and rabbits on walks. I remember reading on these forums that a balanced dog should have prey drive. However, since we are leading him on a walk we're not sure if we as leaders should be controlling & correcting his chasing.

Keep walking. I don't correct .... but our pace is not such that lunging at a passing squirrel is even doable for my dogs.

2) Should we keep the dog on a close leash and not let him walk? This is how we have been walking him for a long time. He is always next to us, never full body in front unless we release him to "get busy". Lately he will sometimes even walk slightly behind us, so this has been working out well so far. However I wonder if it prevents him from enjoying his walks.

Loose-leash and right beside you when walking. Length-of-leash freedom to sniff, pee, etc., on your "release" word (maybe upbeat OK! while you stop dead). Lots of releases (you still holding leash, of course), but at your discretion, not the dog's.

3) Latte seems to love his rear area being pet (on his back near his tail). He moves around on his hind feet and arches his back trying to push into us. Im wondering if this is being dominant?

He's broadly hinting/asking for (even being pushy about) that scritch. You can ignore it, or you can require something for it. I require something.

I don't just comply with the dog's pushy request, however. Dogs don't continue to engage in behavior that NEVER pays off.

"Latte seems to love his rear area being pet (on his back near his tail). He moves around on his hind feet and arches his back trying to push into us."


I have one of these. He does this, I say "Leo sit," he sits, and then he gets the butt-scritch he wanted.

Plus, you know something to do when you are pleased with some behavior.

Some cattle dogs do not like to be touched too much.
A little on the chest and some scratching on the butt. Swinging his butt into you can be a "hip check"', a mild form of trying to get some action out of you.

Squirrel hunting together,where you decide that the two of you together are going to notice and together run after and tree squirrels could be a fun
activity that he would really look forward to. but sometimes you guys are just walking and hia job is just to walk with you. he's not to decide on his own and drag you all over the sidewalk just because he saw a squirrel.

Thanks for the latest feedback. We loved the idea to pick when to chase squirrels - it nearly got my fiancee knocked off his feet in the road the first time we tried though, when the dog bee-lined straight for the squirrel!

Latte is overall still doing well. He made great initial progress and he is still good at walking right alongside us or behind us. A friend taught us a neat trick to swirl the leash in front of his face to teach him to stay back, so that might be a good tip to integrate into more formal heeling training later. He does go pee and poop on command already (get busy). His energy has been slightly more demanding lately but we know it will take time.

He also has been pretty good with dogs when there is some distance (other side of road). With a light tug he often will stop staring, which he knows not to do but can't help himself.

However, when it comes to the apartment and his hypervigilance related to getting in and out of the elevator, progress has not been moving in the positive direction at all. I almost always go out through the lower garage, but still had a couple bad encounters. He is now so focused when we leave the apartment that he is on high alert and hackles raised before we even get to the elevator. He will bark at the elevator even when there is no one inside and the sound of keys/jingling/dog feet makes him go on high alert.

The good news is.. we are very possibly getting our own home soon, with a very decent sized yard =) So even though its still training 24/7 here with Mr Latte, he will need to restart training again in our new home, hopefully in a few weeks.