It IS a reality that often emergency calls lead to dead pets and some folks don't pay the bill for a bad outcome.

It was just the whole attitude that bugged me. A chance to save a life, it's the biggest rush in the world. If a vet has to be convinced, pushed, into coming to help...I mean who does that? You are on call, you go, you talk about money later.

The whole thing bugged me. I'm just too old!

Done ranting now!

Cheri, I agree with most, but not all of your views.

First, in emergency care, human hospitals and doctors are required, by law, to provide care without any pre-payment requirements. They may seek to recover costs, but cannot demand it before treatment. As was evident in this case, vets can, and many do, require payment up front, even in an emergency. It is simply unconscionable.

Second, the veterinary business model is very different from that of human caregivers. Vets act as their own pharmacy and sell special/prescription food products (both at highly inflated prices). They have deals with manufacturers so that certain products are only available through them, at inflated prices that would not otherwise exist in an open market. This is an inherent conflict of interests that was stopped in human care many years ago. Vets can also recommend unnecessary surgeries and treatments with little true oversight.

The AMVA and vets fight against anything that would decrease their revenue, even if it is fair to the consumer and in favor of pet health. Two quick examples: There is a bill pending that would require vets to give clients a Rx instead of self-dispensing without requiring payment for the Rx or otherwise penalizing the client. Some states require this, but it is not nationwide. The AMVA is fighting tooth and nail against it. Next, the AAHA has issued (and has for a while now) revised vaccination guidelines that provide for a 3-year schedule on core vaccinations, and does not recommend the non-core vaccines unless there are special circumstances. But, how many vets routinely give their "annual" core/non-core all-in-one vaccinations? Many still do because it is a major source of revenue for them; despite the fact that it's been shown to cause vaccinosis, auto-immune disease, and a host of other problems that, of course, require extra treatment at extra cost.

So, what I'm saying is that most vets have been trained in a business model that places profit over care; and, because they are not regulated in the same way as human care, they can get away with it. Personally, from what I've seen, no matter how competent the vet, this business model seems to supersede everything else. So, I don't think that most vets fall somewhere in the middle; rather, I think that most vets are profit oriented and the good vets, the ones that care more about their clients than pushing products, are few and far between. In fact, the only ones I've seen so far are vets that take a more holistic approach to veterinary care.

As I said, this is a hot topic for me.

i am glad the dog is ok. I can definitely sympathize, when our 9yr old dutch shepherd went into a special clinic when we found out she had cancer, they came back with a quote for $3000 and insisting on us leaving her overnight. We knew our dog best and felt the stress of all the vet visits the last few days she needed to go home and de stress and turned down the treatments until we could sleep on it. They made us feel like horrible parents for not leaving her and not being able to afford treatment, which I might add, the quote was only to diagnose the cancer not treat it. They made a big stink about if we didn't leave her overnight we would not be guaranteed an appointment the next day, even though the tech looked and said there was lots of room. I asked if I should take work off and they said they didn't know and to call in the morning. We did and they gave us the last app of the day even though we suspect there was many openings. We did the second ultrasound and found out the from the cancer vet that he was 99% sure there was nothing that could be done. so instead of $3000 we spent $450. Of course we didn't get the answer we wanted to hear but we got our answer. stand your ground, you know your dog and don't be bullied and guilted into spending money needlessly if you don't have to, and believe me we had my mom on alert that we may need to borrow a crapload of money if we thought she could be cured!

I'm going to jump back in because you and Betty raise good points. When I did AC, and would have to pick up a dog or cat injured or HBC, sometimes I couldn't get a vet to come out despite regardless of whether the animal was able to be saved, why? Because the vets would tell me the town only paid $35.00, and they knew the owner might walk out on the bill. I had one vet, who when I had dogs hbc one rainy night who said as the police called with the second, and then the third ( all separate instances) " go get him, I'll wait" we were working on these three dogs in the middle of the night for six hours. He is the only vet in all my time as an aco that answered calls and would come out, knowing he was probably only going to get the town fee. He has since moved into a large animal practice, is my own equine vet, and tries to work with people if their animal needs alot of care to prevent uneccessary euthanasia.
I have to add in the human medical vs. vet model, doctors have a lot to lose if they violate standards of care, don't provide needed prescriptions, don't provide emergency coverage. Vets, not so much, and if they do get sued its only for the " personal property" value of your pet, not pain, suffering or emotional anguish for the pets human family.
And just to clarify in my post about my elderly dog, when he was in the ER, I paid, in cash several hundred dollars for xrays, exams, lab work, medications at that time. I was told to make an appt for an US only, I arrived at the facility with the amount I was quoted, plus some. Then, without any discussion I was being asked to consent to pay for items that had not been discussed, and I felt in the way it was presented to me, an effort to take advantage of a distressed owner. The appt had been made for an US only, and some discussion by the ordering vet with the animals owner SHOULD have happened beforehand. jmo

Yep, that's another veterinary scam:

"I think that your dog should stay in our clinic overnight"

Do you have licensed veterinary technicians here overnight to monitor and provide care?

"No"

So you are suggesting that I keep my sick dog in a foreign cage, where there are other sick animals, where there is no one around if they need care; instead of spending the night at home where s/he will be watched and cared for?

"Well, yes"

I don't think so.

I did end up spending between $2000 and $3000 on diagnostics over about six weeks, not realizing that while they were focused on tests the tumor was getting bigger and bigger. If I had it to do over I would have just had the spleen removed immediately.
Oh, the ER wanted to keep my boy overnight, I said no way.
I don't think the majority of vets are money grubbers, I do think you have to be proactive and know what you are willing to do and not do before an emergency comes up.

We need more like you, Betty.

The attitude toward care that I was trained in was the standard of care when I practiced. The rule was 1)relief of suffering 2) You MUST attend (be there if they call) 3) You were expected to do your very very best. Sometimes you ate the bill.

I think that the change may have come with the advent of expensive diagnostics like ultrasound, the in-house lab work (tests for Lyme, feline leukemia etc), fancy Xray. My Xray unit (which I'm sure caused cancer, it was not safe at all) only cost $3000. We had no ultrasound. So we didn't have the tremendous outlay in equipment. Most diagnosis was done with a blood smear, a
thermometer and a stethescope. Our office smelled like clorox . We had one employee who was the tech+receptionist, and a kennel boy, that was it for staff. We paid them next to nothing. Our anaesthesia was primitive, often IV, not even gas. It was dangerous, really. We did only the most primitive pain relief. We were often wrong.
So medicine is way better now, it is.

I am grateful that my experience with vets is opposite of most of these accounts.

I studied pre-veterinary medicine, but failed to be accepted into vet school. It was extremely competitive, with less than 5% of applicants accepted. I never met a vet or vet school student who flunked out of another curriculum.

My current vet, of the past thirteen years, shares my concerns about over-vaccination, unnecessary procedures, and Fanconi syndrome. He is proactive about maintaining a minimalist vaccine protocol, and is always willing and PREPARED to present both the pros and cons of any procedure that I inquire about.

While options might be limited for after-hours emergency vets, I prefer established, independent vets over large clinics for normal care.

Vet care is better these days but it come with ethical issues as well. Sometimes it is kinder to let a dog go peacefully than spend money to extend his life.

Just because we can doesn't mean we should.

Most vets I see genuinely care about animals and will tell you the best outcome for your dollar. I happily go to the clinic that is slightly more expensive for the quality of care they provide and for continuity of care for my animals. I have learned many things the hard way in my life- and I hope I can benefit from past mistakes when it comes to my dogs' care.

I also agree with Betty that vet care is much better these days than in the past. This will sound morbid but I would be dead at 15, and two of my dogs would probably be dead (one of porcupine quill infection, one of Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever), if it wasn't for modern medicine. So I very much appreciate the options in vet care these days. Sure, some vets don't know much about certain things like behavior, nutrition, breeding, and issues with spay/neuter, but in general they know a whole lot more than I do. That said, I do chose my vets very carefully.