I am forever watching the "Focused Heeling" video!! I have taught my dog to pivot on a spot, scooting her but around and she knows a "back" command. BUT....(here comes the question) I am having trouble getting her to do nice pivot turns during heeling. She is a well coordinated GSD, with a long body. Is that the reason I am finding that action difficult?

Is she doing the pivot on the spot while your in heel position?

Giving commands while standing in front of her and then expecting the same while you in heel position is confusing.

Dogs can be very situational.

Is the spot a flat spot on the ground or a slightly raised platform?

I think a slightly raised platform in the beginning helps the dog keep it's front feet in position while the back end pivots.

Yes we started on the raised platform. And she is scooting her butt around for fuss. But when I try to do stationary (or moving) left turns, she isn't moving her back end fast enough. In other words, I taught her to get her rear around fast sitting, but even when I go back to a raised platform, and stand beside her, her rear doesn't follow fast enough at the standing position. Hope I'm making sense

It could be a foot work problem.

Working from the platform is great but it can also change your foot work when you go to a regular heel position if you not conscious of it.

Can you get her excitement level up with a higher level reward?

Other then that, hopefully others will have ideas.

Without a video of what your doing it can be tough to figure what's going on.

Hi Carol. I have taken the course Heelers Toolbox with Forrest Micke. If I am understanding you right - as Bob says it is difficult to judge without video - your working with a touch pad.

I had the same problem too when I started this pivoting with my Pit. Did you beginn practising your pivoting first with the dog in front of you? This helps a lot to make her aware of her rear end.

I made in the beginning the mistake to try it too quickly and with unprecise footwork. Forrest made me aware of this. He told me to stand very close to the bucket and take exact 90 degree steps around it, always in a straight line to the center of it. Reason, the dog needs to have always the same picture.
In between this works near to perfect. If you put the spot in the middle of 4 floor joints crossing each other, it helps to be exact. Only mark, if the dog is really in front of you.
You can also use a square pad, which makes it easier to position your feet precisely.

Once she has got this well, you can also start to ask two or three 90 degree steps without rewarding in between, just duration marker. Later you can also add a little bit more distance to the pad.

Once she knows this procedure well, it will be quite easy to do it in Heel Position. But remember not to be too quick at first and make your steps also in 90 degrees and close and in precise line to the center of the touch pad. You can help her into Heel Position with luring, which will also help to get her Head Position right. The turns you can influence with Powersteering, with which you do not steer only the dogs head but the whole body. Do you know this method? It is described and illustrated in Heelers Toolbox too. Those techniques you will have to fade when progressing. Once she doesnt need it any more, she will have other reference points )e.g. eze contact, your body posture or others. You will not steer any more, she will have to become independent from luring and power steering.

Or are you speaking about backwards pivots? Well the principle is the same, just that stepping precisely backwards around the pad will be more difficult for yourself. At least for me it was. I prefer doing this without a pad, directly on the floor. It is much easier to slide the right foot around - always remaining on the same spot with it - and circling forwards or backwards with the left one.
If you don't have a floor with joints, you can certainly create another reference help for yourself. Dont mark as long as the dog is not in Heel. It is not necessary to make a whole circle, just a part of it. Better only two steps, but wait for the dog to position herself in Heel. And then recognize this with a wonderful jackpott reward. Later on RANDOM REWARDS - advice stolen from Bob.

If you are consistent with only rewarding the correct Heel Position your dog will soon be able to perform a beautiful pivot. With enough practice also a fluent and quick one.

I dont know if this is of any help to you. It is just how it worked for me. Good luck to you both.

Sorry, can not find the edit function for the answer above. I just wanted to add to Powersteering,that it is mostly used for curves, turns though also for straight movements.

When she was younger, I did lots of the touchpad pivot work in front of her. then I switched to being beside her, going forwards and backwards. She does this quite fast on the touch pad, but not as well without it. What we do have, Is a good rear end scoot, flip into basic position, on the level.

But somehow, I seem to be having trouble getting the rear to swing left fast enough on the level and stay standing??? I am trying to take a video selfie to illustrate...very challenging!!

Hi Carol, good rear end awareness already sounds marvelous as it is absolutely necessary for pivoting. Another indispensable prerequisit is of course an exact Heeling for examplle along a wall or another barrier. But as you write she flips well into basic position, this is a very good sign.

She must have a precise picture in her mind of what
you mean with "Heel" or whatever cue you use. If she has already this picture of the Heel Position, then she will learn to pivot, a question of practice and time. Once you've discovered
your error - they happen to all of us, you perhaps make others than I - then you'll succeed. Awareness is always the most important step.

You have the video of Michael, there are also described the Pitfalls very well we tebd to stumble into. He shows in a
impressive manner the mistakes most people make in the beginning.

To avoid giving you a wrong impression - I am not a very experienced handler. I had to struggle in different points
myself and still have continuosly to observe my own behavior. One of my Pits learned rear end awareness quickly on the touch pad, but we had some problems when trying to pivot on the ground. She is huge too, but as she pivoted so well on the touchpad, I could not imagine that her length might be the reason.

Forrest Micke, instructor of the Heelers Toolbox courses, then commented my video. He wrote me, I should do it slower and be well concentrated on performing my own steps exactly and also my own body position. Because I wanted my dog to be in correct Heel Position, I used to look back and sometimes even turned my body a bit sideways, without noticing it. Lol. Something very bad, first because the dog gets an unclear, inconsistent picture and second because in that manner I made her stand somehow crooked or swing away from my leg. And the leg together with our posture is so important as reference point for the dog.

I have not yet rewatched the DVD of Michael, but I remember that he shows such Pitfalls too. I will certainly look at it again. I remember that he apart from other things points to the food delivery. We should put the delivery hand above and slightly behind the dog's head and in the direction of the heel position. If we deliver the reward on the left side of the dogs mouth in an incorrect way he will move wrong, if we deliver on the right also, he'll tend to forge. If we use the technique of Powersteering we have to watch ourselves and the reactions of the dog's movements very consciously. The principle is, directing the dog's head we are also directing the whole rest of
his body.

Rewatching the video I had send to Forrest I could see my mistakes clearly. My husband films us various times now. It helps a lot to get aware of ours and the dog's movements and positions.
A great help is also practicing in front of a big mirror. Of course when pivoting it will not be possible to observe the whole
360° pivot but at least some steps of it.