I have seen some trainers use the table to do prey work. Some have used it to get the dog to bark better. None of this is defensive or threatening, it is all in prey. Can anyone comment on this? I am not familiar with this type of training, but it appears to be the same as just doing tie-out prey work. What would the significance of the table be in prey work?

If used properly, the table elevates the dog and will give it confidance.
Ron

Any time you put a dog on a table any table they are easier to deal with due to the insecurity of being off the ground. Don't believe me? Try standing on a table and tell me how secure you feel. And as a human you can rationalize that the table is sturdy and secure. Dogs can't do this. Retriever trainers use this, as well as bird dog trainers. If you can't frustrate a dog enough on the ground to get it to bark, you need to ask that question first. use more distance, is one of my suggestions. A lot of high prey dogs shut down as you get closer in anticipation of the bite. I am sure someone here will have another technique you could try.

So you guys are saying that the table in prey training has the same negative effect as table training in protection work? When I first got into working dogs I took my young pup to a trainer who used the table for prey work. I had heard about tables being used in protection and told him that I did not want the table to do with my dog's training. He went on to tell me that it is not the same thing as using a table in protection training and that he did not use this type of training in bite work, or defense work with dogs. I have since then quit training with this guy for reasons not mentioned, but am still curious about that practice that he used. I am not saying, in any way, that I agree with table training but am wondering if people use it positively during prey work. I understand how the fight or flight response in table training would work against the progress of good protection work, but there was no defense or stress being put on the dog in the work I saw (I think). It was a while ago and I wasnt as observant as I am now due to lack of experience at the time. I just want to throw this topic into the dog pile.

There are many ways to reinvent the use of any tool.
You could even use a e-collar to create biting behavior in dogs. A table used to create behaviors in dogs have many applications and were invented long ago for force fetching. I often use a table to teach my dogs to change positions without stepping forward. I've used a table to create the foundations for forced tracking.
Yep, I've even used a tabel in protection work.
I like to learn about all techniques and I even feel that there is a place for the table for some very extreme dogs in very rare cases.
Now I have to ask, what would happen to your dog if it didn't grip well on the prey table???
I've seen it used to bring the insecurity...that's my view anyway, others say bring the defense... create escape biting on a sleeve tug or rag. The dog learns to relieve the stress of survival by biting and holding....this should sound a bit like forced fetching....
Escape biting used to be seen when crappy dogs couldn't bite when they were koer'd. Today it is used for titles by some.
It is also the very first type of work I ever saw in guard dog work. There was a somewhat famous facility that did sentry dog type work in my town many many yeras ago.
Dobies would be placed on a short length of chain against a fence...you can see the contraption in Bill Koehler's book. Then the Dobie would have to defend itself against any and all comers or be horse cropped until welted and bruised and even bloody at times.
Eventually they would determine the dog was aggresive enough and the dog would be allowed a short pursuit to bite a hidden sleeve. This process repeated itself over and over. This was a form of escape biting that was quite coarse and ugly. I would say cruel. It was founded in the idea in the dog's mind that it must either bite or be hurt. If it bit first it wouldn't be hurt.
Not really a correct approach to the work for sport, PP, or a PSD today.
This thread is about a prey table???
Or is it about teaching a bite to escape pressure?? I don't know because I would have to see the dog and the corresponding actions of the training decoy to really know.

How is it this thread has remained open for so long? Rambeau must be asleep at the wheel or on vacation. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> *Just kidding Will* <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

No problem, John! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I'm just watching, and if people have a civil and intelligent discussion, it can stay open.
From my observations ( and having watched some of the table training guru's at work ) there are only a few ( very few ) trainers that have the ability to read a dog well enough to pull off table training. The really bad stuff happens when the handlers ( who almost always lack the skill needed to read the dog at that high level ) try to take the table training back to their club environment and try to reproduce the results that the guru could pull off - they can't, and they often end up screwing the dog's training in a nearly non-repairable fashion. I've seen that happen *many* times, and I've seen good dogs scrapped out due to the handler's inability to step back and try and correct a mistake that was totally their own doing. A d*mn shame, in my opinion.

John - you are right - how in the heck has this thread remained open for so long? That happens sometimes as I dont always read every thread.

With that said Kevin is right and the others are WRONG !!!! Kevin and I dont have an opinion on this we have the correct position on it. Opinions are opinions - the board is a place for peoples opinions.

But I draw the line on OPINIONS VS stupid training and table training is stupid training. It's for fat people who dont understand the principles of dog training or for inexperienced trainers or for LAZY trainers.

Now this thread is closed.Those that care to talk about abusive methods to train dogs can go elsewhere. Thiose that dont know what we are talking about can go to my list of training articles and read about TABLE TRAINING !!