Hi: I have a question regarding our now 8 mo. old shepherd, Tyr. Tyr is a silver sable weighing 85 lbs. As a puppy he had a very strong urge to bite just about anything. We gave him a ball on a string, rawhide, etc. to keep him busy and off of us. He loved nothing more than tug of war and chasing sticks.

Now that Tyr is 8 mos. he doesn't bite our legs and feet anymore, but he does a couple of other things that I can't break him of. He herds me around like a sheep. He will either grab hand or herd by his body weight in order to get me to go towards the toy he wants or the way he wants to walk. No matter how I attempt to redirect him he is way too focused on what he wants to listen. I'm careful about reprimanding him as he responds nicely to a loud voice, except when he is herding me. Its like some natural instinct takes over and by God he'll try to get what he wants, even with hell to pay.

Secondly, Tyr is becoming more aggressive in his play. Just the other day I was playing the I chase you, you chase me game and as I was running from him I felt his paws planted up by my shoulders and his teeth grab the back of my parka and down I went like a sack of potatoes. This is the first time he has done this and he wasn't nasty about it. As soon as I fell he looked so concerned and ran around licking me and acting submissive like he was going to get in trouble. I wonder if he was just doing something instinctual and then worried that he had been too rough.? Tyr has also taken to grabbing ahold of forearms (without training or request) when playing or running around the yard. Again, he doesn't bite hard enough to hurt, but something tells me that if I ratcheted things up a few notches he would match it and go up several more levels. So, I redirect his attention to some other "game".

I guess I want to know if this is natural instinct for a shepherd and if it is something I should watch out for. Tyr is not aggressive with any family member, lets guests arrive unmolested (he does bark at first and isn't friendly with strangers--he just ignores then but watches carefully), doesn't hurt the cat (but loves to give chase). Since we wanted a dog that barks and would protect us if needed, we weren't looking for a hard drive dog. Will these "instincts" continue to develope? Should we try to extinguish them or just moderate them.

Our breeder did recommend that we neuter Tyr (and we did) as he could become quite protective. His father (whom we met) is a large (140 lb) male that is as graceful as water on ice (Tyr is as well), but he was quite protective of his home and made an impression on me (and I'm not at all afraid of any dog)! We hoped Tyr wouldn't be as protective if we neutered him, but we won't know yet since he still a pup. We talked with other pup owners of this litter and they all seem to behave alike, with Tyr being the least aggressive of the lot (he was the runt of the litter--at least initially).

Interestingly enough, Tyr's protective instincts seem heightened with me and almost non existent with my husband. Tom is a huge guy and maybe Tyr doesn't feel he has to protect him or herd him. We have gotten to the point where I don't walk Tyr by myself becuase he doesn't want any men within 6' of me. If Tom is there he doesn't seem to care one way or another. How can I temper his protection towards me and why has he developed this behavior to protect me and not my husband?

Thanks for the help.

Regarding the herding instincts......well, they are a herding class breed....it should be expected...shep-HERD......it is natural to them.

Regarding the chasing and biting...my dog did that to me as early as 5 months old, and she broke the skin. I was the prey item and she was chasing me down, and once she got to me she went after the prey item......again this was totally natural to her, she was playing, it was a game to her. I would imagine your dog sees it the same way.

Sounds to me like your dog has a high prey drive, which is good, in most cases, though it depends on what you want out of the dog. If the dog is going after the forearm, remember it is a natural thing, especially for the type of dog you have...he sees a prey object, and wants after it. Also, some males can be very stubborn, this male included, so don't get too frustrated when he doesn't want to listen, even if you are trying to be nice about it. He most likely wants to show you he is the Alpha of your pack, and you need to show him just the opposite.

I think you need to let him be, though with a watchful eye, and an iron fist. If he is behaving inappropriately then let it be known and correct the behavior. If you do not want him to be rough, then you don't be rough.....remember you dictate what the dog does with your love, your training, and your actions.....also, remember to be patient, he is still a puppy...puppies need to play rough.

Come to think of it, in somes ways it was perhaps prey drive, but as I have thought about it more, your pup probably sees you as a litter mate. Dogs will play rough, kind of like play fighting....this is probably what is happening more than the prey drive, though the prey drive might have some influence.

Hi: I think you are right about Tyr (pronounced teer) seeing me as a litter mate. In fact, this has been my husband's theory. He plays with me much differently that he does with my husband--he actually invites play all the time and gets a little over eager if I don't seem to be "catching on." With my husband he is much more reserved and "adult" behaving.

I was probably a bit over nurturing with him as a youngster and engaged with him whenever he so wanted. Even this morning we were taking a walk in the timber and he kept coming up behind me and trying to get me to run so that he could chase me down. He makes his desires VERY clear. I ignored him and he kept up his invitations for a while and then went off exploring. He seemed to get the idea that I wasn't in the mood to get mauled that early in the a.m.

When Tom (my husband)reprimands him, Tyr's first reponse is to run behind me or sit behind me and peak out at my husband. He seems to think I will protect him--you'd think he'd catch on that I won't. I have a feeling it will take a while to establish my "dominance" over him (if ever). I tend not to be the dominant type.

Thanks for your opinions. I should ask whether he will grow out of some of this as he ages or whether he will get only rougher. After all, 8 mos. is still a youngster and he is beginning to really feel his teenage oats!

I'm trying to find out how to post a pic to this site when I don't have an internet address, only a digital pic. When I figure that out I'll post a pic of our puppy.

He may grow out of some of the rough housing, but he'll still want to play, and sometimes play rough, maybe not as much though. My Malinois is 22 months old and when in her kennel she is usually somber, but as soon as the door opens......a tornado touches down. You'll certainly see a difference in the behavior of Tyr as he grows older and matures, but each dog is different so it is difficult to predict exactly how he'll be. Good Luck.

Thanks for your help. There aren't a lot of shepherd owners in our neck of the woods and getting information that is helpful isn't easy. We were happy to locate this site and find the folks here intelligent and willing to share helpful information.

I remember our visit to the animal behaviorialist (when Try was 5 mos. old) at WSU and after 5 hours of testing we received a 6 1/2 page "report" on Tyr. I always go back and read the line "Tyr is unusually calm for a juvenile, male GSD." Well, calm while testing, but at home? NOT! Really, he is quite calm compared to most shepherds I've seen, but he is still more dog than any other we have owned.

I mentioned in one of my posts that he scored top 1% in intelligence as measured by individual problem solving (ability/timed), ability to listen to human command, willingness to work with human commands, etc. The behaviorialist looked at us and said, "well, I have some good and bad news. He's smarter than you." She had never tested such a young pup that could learn with one repition. She just loved him! In fact, she asked to do a video with Tyr for demos at the vet college.

Tyr opens doors, refrigerator, turns on his leap frog learning toys (no joke) and it is lovely to see, but maddening to keep him occupied. He has mastered every game we could come up with and gobbles up more and more info. My husband says he is scary (my husband is a child psychologist). One time of watching something and it sticks forever.

We were at the vet the other day and we put him in an exam room so he wouldn't chase the vet's cat around and a minute later he had opened the door. We tried another exam room and he did it again. That cat was a great motivator.

My only wish is that he would enjoy strangers more. He doesn't like strangers coming close (especially men). I think what concerns me most is the intensity that he watches people as they approach. If they get to close he growls so low that the sound resonates throughout his body. If the person continues to approach he will curl back his upper lip. No one has ever continued to approach beyond this point. Once I go up and touch the person then he seems o.k. with the person being near but not touching him. My only concern is that one day he will react so quickly that I don't see something coming. He seems to use his own cues as to whether someone is o.k. or not. One of my best friends he is very odd around and doesn't like her at all. Another lady I can't really stand and yet he loves her. Go figure!

Thanks for the help.

Sounds like an intelligent dog....though animal behaviorlists kind of freak me out.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
In contrast my dog will watch people very intensly as they approach, and even sometimes will intermittently watch them as they approach depending on how close they are. She seems to not worry about them too much until they get within 10 feet, and even then she just studies them. She has never growled at anyone, ever, which really surprises me. In fact she really isn't aggressive except to other animals, and on my command in training situations. She won't agress towards people unless I tell her to, or in situations she can see I am being assualted (training scenario), or she is being agitated. Sometimes I wish she would be a little more aggressive....all thins considered though, she is a well rounded dog. She is a very strong nerved dog and it takes a great deal of stress to get her to react. This is a blessing, but sometimes is a hinderance when training.

By the way, is Tyr just a family pet, or will you be putting him to work, or competition?