Bingo

Lee said: "You're embelishing the story to make it suit your take on the situation."

Jacob says: Lee respectfully, I can only give my opinion not others, There is no "spin" intended
it's just my observation of all the dogs I see DAILY. Weather they be Pet dogs or pro dogs there is no difference in what we see. And how the owners still fail in thier communication to the dog.

Lee Said: The owner never said he praises the dog; he simply ends up picking the dog up becuz the dog goes into avoidance.

Jacob: I'm surprised Lee that you don't consider a pick up a form of physical praise. (This is a topic for a whole other thread)

Lee Said: Nor did he say that the dog throws a fit if the owner fails to pick him up - on the contrary, he said the dog begins showing avoidance behavior even as they approach the truck. You're making it sound like the dog likes being picked up and is manipulating the owner to make him do it. The rest of us are reading it that the dog wants to avoid the truck altogether and would prefer the owner didn't force him to get in at all. The dog's not manipulating anyone;

Jacob: I agree with this statement but I agree that this is your spin on the issue.

Lee said: he's got fear issues with the truck for whatever reason.

Jacob Says: Oh Oh Oh I totally agree and I never said the dog was not fearfull. However, The thing most trainers over look is thier inability to over ride said fear through thier own directions. Nor do most trainers have a systematic way of over riding the fear the dog projects.

Lee said: I watched a nationally competitive dog end his career when the handler did this. Dog smashed his knee on the tailgate and tore his ACL.

Jacob: I had to laugh at this part and I mean all due respect to the owner and dog.
But I would not want to be known as a nationally competitive dog trainer or handler and I can not do such a simple task as get my dog in the back of my truck properly. Why did you guys and girls let this happen. Maybe thay should make jumping in the back of a truck part of the competition. JK!!!!!

Lee : Again, train SMARTER, not harder.

Jacob: what? This is a cute little phrase for those who pick up a leash on the week end!
Bingo Bingo Bingo. JK

NO really, before I get riped a new one,
We see this in almost everydog that walks in the kennel every day. and the instuction to the owner on how to over come this so called behavior problem takes really no longer then 10 min.

But if there are truly Behavior problems then we would have a systematic way of turning the task into work for both the owner and the dog thus inturn making this an obedience issue and not a behavior issue. And I Have to reread some of the others post, but I think some of the other girls already posted some great places to start.

Let me check

I don't buy the JK at the end of each one of your snide remarks, at least have the guts to say what you mean without the JK.

I'm still waiting for the way to "turn this into work".

I really want to know how you would address this problem, exactly, step by step.

Jacob wrote: " Oh Oh Oh I totally agree and I never said the dog was not fearfull. However, The thing most trainers over look is thier inability to over ride said fear through thier own directions. Nor do most trainers have a systematic way of over riding the fear the dog projects."

How about you start with this, break it down for dumb old me?

Well Van, just couldn't let you be the bad guy all by your lonesome.

First off, the point was never made, so...why a dog is in a open bed pick up is beyond me for one. If you have a cap, OK, my bad, but an open bed truck and dogs don't mix IMO.

Second, I'm by no means a click and treat trainer. I do however like dogs to satisfy what makes THEM work. I don't think they do anything for us, they do it for themselves. It either satisfies a drive, or desire or if conditioned, avoids discomfort. They do for them, not for us. To steal a far over-simplified statement I make to rookie handlers "we are chauffeurs and doormen." Drive em to where they have to work, open the dog and let them do their jobs. Yes they have to be trained, etc etc, but they are doing it for their pleasure, not ours.

For jumping into the truck. If the dog has real avoidance issues with something which may have happened while in the truck...if an open bed, could be a simple as a kicked up stone or even a bug hitting him at 50 mph that cause a good deal of pain. Force will not make the situation any better. This may take a long time to recondition the dog not to fear or avoid the truck.

I too see nothing wrong with a few bribes on this one. Food, toys, praise, heck if the dog wants it, and is willing to do something for it, what do I care so long as there are results and dog is happy.

Another point I believe someone may have made is the dog may have injured himself once trying to jump in and now associates pain with the truck.

Next, perhaps the dog just can't make the jump. It happens. Heck, I'll NEVER dunk a basketball. I don't care, some folks just can't jump. Why should the dog be any different. If it were a Mal, or a GSD, I'd probably not say this, but it is a Rottie. Our house pet Rottie care barely make the jump into the back of my Expedition. She at times just makes it and needs some help. She's not fat, just not built to jump.

I would break down the "problem" away from the truck. Perhaps find a lower SOLID surface and teach a fun command to jump up onto the object. You can slowly move to different heights and objects and perhaps the dog will be more open to jumping back into the truck.

All that said, if the truck doesn't have a cap, please go buy a good crate and some bungie cords to strap it down with.

Well said Josh!
Another point that should be made is that a dog riding loose in the back of a truck has to always try to keep his balance if he is standing in the back and most dogs don't like to be off balance.
If the dogs lays down in the back he is getting bounced around on a hard surface. Wind blasting past your ears and your ears flapping at 90 kph can't be too comfy either. A crate or dog box allows the dog to brace himself and keeps him from banging around loose from any sudden stops and the dog is protected from the wind etc.
We truck 40 plus dogs a day and they ride in enclosed dog boxes with comfortable bedding and all the dogs like their boxes and see them as a comfortable refuge.
Besides a Rottweiler loose in the back of a monster truck looks so darn low-rental anyway <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Interesting posts on what I thought was just a simple thing.

So in hindsight I think what happend is that Kimo my pup, had a series of 'negative associations' that I wasnt even aware of.

Im no expert on these matters but what made the most sense to me (and easiest) was to just put some nice treat inside the truck for him to find.

Over the last couple days ive done this several times, sometimes I dont even drive, ill just put him in there and let him enjoy something, then take him out.

A couple of hours ago, I took Kimo out to the truck to go to the petstore with me, and this time he went right up to the door and almost jumped right in before I picked him up <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Besides a Rottweiler loose in the back of a monster truck looks so darn low-rental anyway.

Well if having a rockclimbin, creekridin, mudsloppin, lakecruisin, mountainhoppin, trailBLAZING ride with a super cool (and trained!)Rotty by my side is low-rental....

Then call me WALL MART <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />