Jeff has officially gone off the deep end. LOL

I agree! LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

O.K. I have talked to you and trust what you would have to say about anything training related. But how is it that Shutzhund is going to tell me what is important about a Mal? If I were wanting a puppy, and you told me your dog had a SchIII, SO? I just would like to hear how I am supposed to look at this title and see the benefits for the breed. I hope all is well with you.

And yes, I often stare off into the deep end. I have been on the edge of this for so long, it's rather medatative.(sp)

Jeff,
Schutzhund isn't going to tell you EVERYTHING that is important about a Mal (or any other breed) but it does show that the dog can withstand the rigors of the training required to achieve a schutzhund title and a level of trainability. Ring sport ALSO isn't the end all-be all to tell you something about a dog....in case you were headed in that direction! lol

I don't personally do schutzhund these days, mostly cause I don't have a helper! And I don't think SchH titles are as meaningful as they once were many moons ago when the dogs were rated in courage and hardness. It's become more sport and pastime than breeding test, for the most part.

I think a good Mal can do anything and that's whats cool about them....the stud dog Nitro that we have here has a SchH 3, but he also has a lot of other things going for him. You look at the dog, the pedigree, the ability of the handler (some dogs may never make Ring or SchH titles because their handler isn't able to do it), the siblings and offspring and then roll the dice that a pup you buy will work....

Hi Jeff! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hope you know I was 'razzin' you; but I do disagree with you on this. Here's my way of thinking...

Firstly, NO program out there is going to give you 100% without a doubt; indication of whether a Mal is suitable for breeding or its pups worth anything. No program is complete. One shouldn't base their decisions on titles. You should be looking at the DOG. Let's face it the established programs out there are more a test of training than they are of dogs.

I can also say the same for some of the Ringsports...when I see a Mal screaming, snarling, and/or biting shallow, thrashing...is that what the breed is about? I don't think so. Yet this is acceptable in 2 of the 3 rinsports without fault. The wonderful thing about this breed is its versatility and its ability to be used very effectively in a number of programs.

ScH can and does demonstrate a calm, full, DISCIPLINED grip and performance. I have seen more successful Ring III's which were so hot-headed; they couldn't think their way out of a paper bag once the pressure was increased...yet they still achieved their titles. So what does that prove? Weaknesses in the program/judging/scoring. There are a ton of dogs that 'slip' through the levels in all programs. Whether a dog uses it's paws is irrelevent. Certain lines (BR lines) have a greater tendency to do this...but then it's also possible when doing BR. Now add some very high movement and true opposition as in FR and see how many can actually use their legs to grab on. It's all relative. I have some dogs which come exclusively from Ring lines...and yet they EXCEL in ScH. And I've had dogs which stem from IPO lines and we're definitely Ring style dogs. And I have a male now that is genetically all Ring lines but is phenomenal in ScH...but since we're aware that no program is complete and decisive...his training is also supplemented with Ring/suitwork, muzzle work, and hidden sleeve stuff (which we just started)...When you combine different aspects of various programs; this gives a much clearer indication of what the dog is all about and it's potential for breeding.

None of the programs out there are true 'breed tests'. They are just programs...nothing more-nothing less--IMO pleople 'read' too much into them.

Look at the WHOLE dog...not the titles.

Anyways, just my own thoughts and opinions. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Take care!

Thanks Brigita <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My female Mal pup uses her feet quite abit when fighting/playing with me. I was wondering about that

I like the way ring has the dog out there thinking on it's own. It has to inhibit itself in the bitework with the handler out of sight or nearby. I think the opposition towards the dog shows better what the dog is all about. I think that while it isn't everything, ring is a much better test of a Mal. I don't see Shutzhund being a good test. You might as well tell me your dog does flyball. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know if you don't have a choice, then sure it's better than nothing. But c'mon, you know you like ring better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />