Hi y'all. I have an ACD who I know could get his UD, if not higher...but he hates having his feet touched. I've tried treats when touching his feet--nothing doing. He won't have it. I got him from a shelter at 8 mths (he's 2 1/2 now) and am pretty sure he was ignored for the first 8 mths of his life as he had no basic obediance whatsoever, but he loves people so go figure.

He's a smart dog--the plan is to compete in agility (he loves his classes so far), and I'm looking at herding classes. I wanted to do obediance--he is nearly perfect on everything but heel (which we're working on) and the stand for exam. I'd pretty much given up the OB idea, but I do need to teach him to let me handle his legs and feet to clip his nails as well, so it'd kill two birds with one stone.

Any experts out there have any ideas?

Use a clicker

Did they add something new to the "stand for exam" exercise in Novice that involved the judge touching a dog's feet?


Teaching a dog to allow you to manipulate it's feet is a great idea, but I'm not seeing where that will impact on any OB exercise directly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

i am the first to say, i know nothing about clicker training. i really don't think i want to due to the fact that i may not have my clicker with me (1), and i'm not sure it's legal in the sport i'm interested in (2).

that said, how about working on simply desensitizing him? if it was me, i'd start with supper. have him lie down, and hand feed him while playing with his feet and toes. he gets food when he doesn't freak about you handling his feet/toes. it takes some time, but i'd rather have a dog that takes toe-nail clippings without the drama, and i've always been able to get my various dogs to at least submit, even if they're a little nervous.

clip a very little at first so you don't "quick" them, and reward for submission. time, patience and treats. there's no reason any dog should resent foot/nail handling, IMO

Will, I was told that the judge will run his hands down the dog's legs during the stand for exam--if he doesn't, then we're good. We may even be good if he doesn't go further than the knee.

Anne, he won't touch the food if you're messing with his feet--he's more interested in bolting. It's one of the reasons I've been scratching my head about how to deal with this for the last almost 2 yrs I've had him--it's like he's phobic about it. Can you desensitize a phobic dog?

When I got him his nails were short--extremely short, and cut at a weird angle--so I've wondered if whoever did them didn't hold him down and cut, maybe through the quick at one point, so now he hates having his feet handled. I found it weird because he will let me do anything to him anywhere without me having to hold him still except for messing with his feet (other people as well, as far as touching him anywhere goes, and he came like that--I didn't train him to accept people petting him wherever). If you get within six inches of his feet, he tries to leave. If he can't leave, he panics.

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there's no reason any dog should resent foot/nail handling, IMO

I agree--my family's dogs have always allowed us to handle their feet. My Collie doesn't like having her nails clipped, but she'll let me do it without too much fuss, and my GSD puppy will let me do it, if I don't make it go for too long.

Ed, I might try the clicker--I forgot about that. I used to use it for him, but I gave up because it was annoying and kept getting misplaced *g* And he was figuring things out fine without it--but he remembers what the sound means, so I'll give it a try.

The AKC web site has the rules and regulations for all of their events. The regulations for the stand for exam states, "Using the fingers and palm of one hand, the judge will touch the head, body and hindquarters". It doesn't comment on how far down the hindquarters the judge will go. I doubt any would go all the way down the leg. The AKC CD will be my dog's next title before we go for his Sch I in March.

The judge walks by your dog when you're at the end of the leash with the dog in the "stand" position. The judge touches the dog's head, between his shoulder blades, and his flank lightly as you walk by the dog.
I've *never* seen a judge do more than that in the exercise, and that's after probably 45 CD's on my part.
No need to worry about something that won't be happening in the ring.

It's the CGC where the dog's front paws are handled. My older Malinois hates getting her front feet touched and we are not able to pass this portion of the test because she always moves.

Natalie

I thought on this for a while.

If your dog has enough drive for toy or treats to paw at it in frustration, you should be able to use clicker and treats/toy to teach your dog to "shake." Gradually hold your hand closer to his foot when you tell him "shake." It will take a lot of time, in many short fun sessions each day. This would work well for nail clipping, but you also have the possibility that he would offer his foot to the evaluator.

Have you thought about massage/Tellington Touch to desensitize your dog to all touch?

that's kinda the next thing i thought of, ie, just handle his/her feet at every opportunity, i guess i wouldn't be so concerned about foot-handling at a trial, but just every-day maintenance.

just thought of this--i don't know whether it'll work, but WTH. i had a horse who'd gotten his hoof caught in a woven-wire fence, tore off 1/4 of his hoof. well, these guys need their feet trimmed every 8 weeks max, and i had a really good blacksmith. so when it came time to work his feet, we aced him (a common tranq), did his feet, and he was ok. now, it took 2 more times of acing him to do foot care, but by the 4th time, he was fine with no tranq.

his hoof still wasn't 100% at that time, (and never really was), but he'd learned that the trimming/shoeing wasn't painful, and would stand for it, no trouble.

the point is, i wonder if a mild tranq, initially, wouldn't get you over the hump to where the dog will be able to respond to food rewards...and go from there.

hope this makes sense <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> it does to me at least <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />