I would like to hear from Ed, Will, Kevin S and others who really know their stuff.
In one of Eds articles I believe he states that the best police dog prospects are young dogs who have been started in SchH or KNPV but not yet titled. Why? Would it hurt to title them?

Also, it is my understanding that a PPD or PSD is raised differently than a SchH pup. Does the bite development for SchH interfere with the pups developement as a PSD or PPD?
Also, doesn't the advice to select a started sport dog contradict the advice to start these pups differently.

The reason I ask is because I am planning to join the local SchH club. Ultimately, I would like to train this pup as a PPD with some police type training. I feel that the SchH club will be a good start as I don't have a good decoy/quarry and I dont want to spend a lot of money on equipment to train a pup that might not work out bite or have the neccessary drive to do the work.

Im a bit confused. I guess my question is..given my ultimate goal is it better to start my pup with imprinting/leg bites etc, or with building focus and grip?SchH ground work? What are the trade offs? Will the puppy imprinting greatly affect his SchH work? Should I skip the SchH all together?

All advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your time,
Phil

No one has any advice or comments??

Well you asked for specfic people to respond. So I wouldnt expect much. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I was especially interested in their opinions. That doesn't mean I don't want to hear from others. I asked for info/advice from "people who really know their stuff" and no replies. I guess its good to be humble <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I now would like to hear from people who kinda know their stuff and people who have an opinion. I thought this would be a hot thread <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Phil, this is my opinion ( sorry, it's "work the dogs hard season" and I just pop in and out during the height of the work season. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) -

I'd bet that Ed stated that due to the fact that a dog will often revert under adverse circumstances to it's foundation training. A dog trained with sport in mind may have several nice titles but could well have never had any muzzle training or training in adverse situations or on difficult surfaces/ environments which would test the dog's true temperament.

As far as the puppies being raised differently for different future venues, I don't believe that'd hold true in a "perfect world" - to me, it's more that the puppies separate themselves into different classes for potential future work by what they show you in their day-today training sessions.
Also, different breeders/ trainers want different things from potential candidates as puppies ( of course ). Some want their Sport puppies to have a balance of drives to have the best chance to score points. A potential PSD candidate better show good drives along with excellent environmental stability and nerves, along with the ability to go civil. A PPD candidate can have a higher level of suspicion and be a bit more "nervy" and actually do it's job better with those traits, as long as it's managed correctly.

Again, these are just my opinions and other folks will have different ones due to their experiences.

Phil, since you're looking for Police type work in the future, your ideal puppy should have good prey drive and strong "hunting" drive for objects. Excellent nerves will likely be the best determiner of what a candidate can show you as a puppy/ young dog as all the bite work in the world done on a young dog may not help if they don't have the nerve strength to overcome stronger opposition by a decoy during future training.

Hope that helps...

Thanks Will, that certainly does help.

but you beg the question of imprinting/leg bites vs building drive (i think). but i'm really a dumba$$, so if you answered the questions he raised, just ignore this post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> maybe in a year i'll understand....

i was really interested in this post because it raises the kinds of questions i'll have eventually (except i won't be looking at PSD work), and because, as far as i know, the only club i have access to is a SCH club...

oops-- i meant "vs focus and grip" not "drives"....sorry <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

SchH is the only sport avail. here also, that is why i posed the question. It sounds like we are in a similar situation Ann. Will pretty much answered the question, even though its a lot to get into in a short answer.

Will, somewhat on these same lines, my dog is trianed only in prey, at this time, for schutzhund. "IF" he had the genetics to be a good PSD, PPD, could that easily be brought out? I hear the term "locked in prey". Does this happen with a dog that has what it takes, or just a dog that doesn't have the real civil and/or fight drive?
My dog has a nice civil side to him, but I don't know about what kind of true fight he has.
Now to add a real green question:
Would testing him in a muzzle, change his attitude with people, or create problems? I don't need a PPD, but I would love to know just what my dog has in him.