OK Will Rambeau, I did a thorough search of the archives before posting here, so if I missed it and it's been covered, I apologize and please point me in the right direction.

Hey folks, got a quandary. A pup that I raised from 6 weeks up till 10 months, just turned 14 months old. He certified on Narcotics less then two weeks after his first birthday and is currently on the street with our local P.D. He was extensively socialized, was extremely outgoing and very VERY social. All of a sudden, he's timid and actually backs away from people and backs into his K-9 handler.

Tonight I stopped by to see how he was doing and witnessed this behavior first hand. In just a few short months he's gone from a super outgoing dog to being very timid. He also exhibited incredible separation anxiety when his handler went outside to get some dog cookies out of the patrol car. This was with me holding him too, and I'm someone he's known his whole life.

Here are some stats. I picked up the pup at 6 weeks old. Hubby and I raised and worked him as our French Ringsport prospect, but he was too friendly and my husband likes "sharp & edgy" dogs (read that A-holes). Anyway, we had him for 10 months and worked him in Ring the whole time; he had very little obedience, as we focused on building his prey drive, grips and the bitework. So only very basic obedience and not any demanding precision OB. He's been a confident, happy, eager, and hard working puppy who’s always been eager to please. When my husband decided he didn't want to keep him, we offered him to the local P.D. for a working dog. They tested him, he passed their initial test, and the officer fell in love with him and took him home. He was at the officers home for 2 weeks then he went up to the McNeil Island Penitentiary for his narcotics training (they certify here in WA and he was there a total of 12 weeks), the last 6 weeks of his training was up there with his handler. He passed the class with flying colors, and certified with both the Washington State Police Canine Association and the Criminal Justice Training Commission on October 30th (1st birthday was Oct 17th). So clearly he’s VERY young to be on the streets, but all the trainers really enjoyed his work ethic and he’s got a phenomenal nose on him.

He began working on the street November 9th and already has some nice busts to his credit. He works 4-10's with his handler, so obviously, spending that much time with each other there is bound to be an attachment, but tonight he totally freaked out when Jeff left him with me (his former “Mommy” for 10 months) while he went out to get some dog cookies. (Went to get cookies so that strangers could give them to him in hopes of getting him over this shyness)

Scenario: We were in the lobby of the local Tribal Gaming Casino, but this is one of the businesses that he patrols and searches for drugs in. Anyway, last month when they first started their patrol, he would walk through the casino, and seemed unfazed by all the noises and commotion. He went up to strangers for pets and to greet them and seemed to love everyone. Now he won't approach anyone and actually backs away from people that approach him and backs INTO his handler. There is no aggression at this point, just avoidance, but clearly he has lost that outgoing, friendly attitude.

Anyone have any thoughts? And where do you think this separation anxiety comes from? He was literally lunging at the door that Jeff went out the whole two minutes he was gone. I had to really get his attention in order to calm him down (I started heeling him around to get his focus off the fact that Jeff had left the building). I've never seen him exhibit ANY of these behaviors previously. He is strictly for narcotics, no patrol work. He passed both of his certifications with over 90% in his finds, so obviously the trainers and testers thought he was good enough or mature enough to be on the street.

I know that he has spent an inordinate amount of time with his new owner, in intense training, and then being in a rig with him 10 hours a day, so is the fact that they're spending so much time together making him too dependent upon his new handler? He's loose in the back of the rig and prefers to ride with his head on Jeff's shoulder. Do you think perhaps he needs to be crated, so there is some physical separation? We’re open to any and all ideas. I had to get home, so didn't get to stay and watch for any other behaviors or sit down to work on some solutions, and then had an epiphany that maybe the folks on this list might have some ideas. Any and all thoughts would be greatly appreciated. While it is not necessary for a narcotics K-9 to be social, I don't think that this behavior change is a positive thing and I hate to see avoidance and such dependency issues.

Looking forward to your input and please let me know if you need any further information.

Thanks much,

Lesli

P.S. you can view his page at: Taylor Homepage

Do a search for "fear period". My 4 month old is showing the same signs when he had been fearless and outgoing when I got him at 7 weeks.

I would sugest you email ED. I think that I saw somewhere that he doesn't support the idea of fear stages. I could be totally wrong here so if I am I am sorry!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I just got done with a email session with him on another issue and he was kind and supportive. He answered my question and I didn't understand the answer, so he reanswered it patiently and in a way that I could understand. I had done as much research on the subject as I could, but on one pt got stumped from all the conflicting advise I found even on this board.
I figgure that he is an expert and has the experience to back up what he says, esp. in the case of drug dogs. I am pretty sure that I would take what he has to say over what others have to say. (if you haven't already, go check his bio on his regular site)
I'm not saying that everyone should just email him at the drop of a hat, but if you have searched and since this is about an actual working drug dog, and not one of those random newbe questions that could be answered by spending 10 min reading the site, I would talk to him directally.
You don't want bad advise about this one.
JMO

You should talk to Ed or someone more experienced than I am.
But...A lot of young males go through a weird period around that age. Keep sociallizing and working, but maybe take some pressure off of him. If no unusual circumstances led to this behaviour it might not be as bad as it seems. JMO.

Thanks folks for the info. I've emailed Ed my quandry and lets hope we can get some resolution. I don't believe that a 14 month old is going through any fear period, but I could be wrong. Never have I come across a dog THAT slow to mature and we always make our dogs work through any periods that might be construed as 'fear'.

Lesli

The only thing I would offer is to a) have the dog checked out by a vet, and b) if he checks out okay, do some serious thinking back to *what* if anything spooked him. Was the dog out of the handlers presence (like boarded etc) for any period of time? Is it perhaps the colours of some clothing, or smells? It could be just about anything but he sounds like a real neat dog, so I am thinking something happened to spook him, and nothing but time and sleuthing will help. You know, this reminds me of something that "happened" to one of my dogs. She was around a year old, and I was at an agility trial. I asked a stranger to her (acquaintance of mine) to hold her while I ran and did something. This upset her greatly. She got worse as they tried to calm her. She had never acted that way before, but to this day, when I walk up to someone, and act like I am giving the leash, or they get too friendly, she backs up, as if to say "uhuh, no WAY I am going with THAT person!" One thing that helped was to have people ignore her when we chat, and then she is more relaxed. She is not your caliber dog, but I will say, this happened at about the same time this is happening with your boy.

Check Health first.
Then do a selection test with someone VERY knowledgeable about detector dogs away from the handler, you, and anyplace he knows.
If the dog is healthy I will speculate that what we could be seeing in this case is a situation in which good rearing and training practices have now clashed with genetics.
The was trained well, so performed well until the stress of actual deployment mounted and now you have what is left ...genetics.

Thanks Kevin.

I'll see that his handler gets him to a vet first and after that, we'll get someone un-involved to evaluate him. Sounds like taking him back to the detector program for an independent evaluation wouldn't be "un-biased" since they did the detector training, so I'll see if I can find someone else in our area knowledgeable about detector dogs to do an evaluation. Since no one mentioned his youth, apparently that doesn’t seem to play any part in this. I was thinking that he just had way too much too fast, but sounds like I was looking in the wrong direction.

Lesli

 Quote:

If the dog is healthy I will speculate that what we could be seeing in this case is a situation in which good rearing and training practices have now clashed with genetics.
The was trained well, so performed well until the stress of actual deployment mounted and now you have what is left ...genetics.

Just for clarification Kevin, if his health checks out, then you're saying that he's basically a crapper genetically? If so, any suggestions? Would continued training, socialization and working on this new shyness be something you would advocate for or if the dog is just a crapper that had a good run, would you wash him out before more time is put into him??

This is a new K-9 program for this department and this department has only $5,000 TOTAL as their budget for '06 (it was '05's budget too) Hence our donation of the pup and the offer of free training to date. It's not like they're in a position to go out and get another dog. My husband and I are willing to continue to work with them (dog and green handler) for free, so I'm trying to get a feel for what you would do. {We don’t and did not do the drug training, but are able to work with them in every other area}

If it is poor genetics, would you give up or would you say keep trying? Since they're close, it's not a hardship for either of us to work with them and the dog is being successful in his job, finding the dope and getting it off the streets... he's just not excelling in the P.R. department as Mr. Social.

One last question, is it important for a narcotics dog to be social or have there been successful narc dogs that did not interact with the public?

Thank you in advance for your help in this matter.

Respectfully,

Lesli

I wouldn't find it a disadvantage when a narcotics dog is not interacting with the public. If he's not agressive towards the public would be enough for me. When dogs get attention from other people all the time they can find that more interesting than doing their job. I would say it's a little early to say that the dog has weak nerves. A dog has to get used to his working environment. I think it's very young for a dog to be ready for working the streets. Try to train with the dog in a similar environment and make it fun for him. When his drives are good there's a good chance that he will forget his environment and do his job.