I have been tube feeding and placing one of my new pups on the dam since last night. The vet told me to give him 3cc of formula every four hours. This morning he was at 485 grams which was the same weight as when I started at 10 am I gave him 3 cc and at 2 pm he was at 496 grams and I gave him 10 cc since there was no real gain and I had read on this site that he should be getting at least 135 cc per day. I gave him 15 cc at 6 pm and when I went in to get him at 9:45 pm he looked like he had just eaten and was at 525 grams so I waited until the dam laid down to feed the other two at 11:30 and put him on a nipple several times without and real attempt to suck on his part. At that point I decided to give him the 20 cc feeding I was planning to give at 10 pm. I got it down ok and none came back out. I'm planning to weigh him at 4 am or so when I normally wake up anyway. ( I'm a sysadmin at an internet service and have gotten up to check the network at night for years) Am I doing the right thing increasing the feeding etc?

I'm on my second vet in two years the last one told me I'd starve my dog with a all natural diet and suggested I use a halti to train my shepherd chow mix. What she needed was a prong coller and decent food.

This one won't perscribe anything unless I bring them in. I couldn't get Oxytosen to keep on hand for the welping and I suspect that was the reason for a six and 1/2 hour space in between pups. I believe the space between pups contributed to the one that is being tubed issues. The other two born about 45 minutes apart are doing fine.

I don't care as much about the cost of the vet visits as I am concerned with exposing them to potentially sick animals. Isn't it insane to expect me to bring a bitch in labor into the office in the middle of the night for a shot particularly after she has welped a pup? How do other people get vet drugs? Some things I can buy at a farm store or elivator. I have no problem calling vets in a 120 mile radius to find somone that is willing to work with me to do the right thing for my dogs.

Am I being unreasonable with my expectations from vets? I understand they need to make a living too and I don't mind paying for service but not if it's just to ring a few dollars out of me at the expence of my dog's health. I live about 30 miles from Michigan State University it's an agracurtual school and has a fine vet med program I'm going to try calling them tomorrow and see if they can recomend someone.

Any ideas or critisim is much appreciated

Well, I hate to say so, but if a pup has no suckle reflex it's a pretty black outlook. The puppy could be too cold, which would certainly keep him from having much suckle response. You didn't say if the puppy was passing any stools or urine. You do know that you have to stimulate the pup with a warm wet cloth to get him to eliminate, right? Puppies should always feel warm to your touch, if not, they are probably too cold. I would firstly make certain the pup is warm enough. One of the best ways to warm a single pup is stick them down the front of your shirt. That will bring their temp up, but not too fast and you don't have to worry about overheating. Use extreme caution w/ a heating pad. If you must use one, keep it only on low and padded with several thicknesses of newspaper and towels. A better heat source is a lamp. Put a thermometer in the box by the pup and move the light closer or farther away to maintain temp. About 85 should keep him warm enough. Always maintain a little back suction on the tube as you withdraw it so no milk leaks out where the pup can inhale it. Good luck.

As far as your vet not selling you Oxytocin, that's understandable. In the case of long-term clients that the vet KNOWS can tell the difference between difficulty whelping and a slow whelping process, most experienced vets will send home a shot. What if your vet gave you the Oxy and you injected your bitch and she ruptured her uterus with increased contractions on a stuck pup? You'd be angry with the vet for selling it to you. There's just too much that can happen. A great drug used at the wrong time can be a disaster.

He does suck and I believe he drank a good deal tonight from the dam prior about 90 minutes before his last feeding. He may or may not live and I have no problem accepting that. I do question how he could have been expected to gain weight or even stay hydrated on 18 cc in a 24 hour time period. His weight is up to 540 grams at 1:50 am. In fact I just looked over and he scooted over is nursing on his own. I think you were right about my indoor kennel being to private, she insisted in having her pups right next my desk.

I do know that you have to stimulate them to get get them to go, his mom is doing a good job with that. I have a welping pad and a heat lamp in the box. It's 85 or so in the box so thats not an issue. Other than access to meds and equipment I think I have my bases pretty well covered.

Perhaps I'm odd, but I wouldn't have blaimed anyone but myself for a mistake I made with meds. I have no problem accepting my own mistakes. What I'm not real good with is not having the option to make an informed decision. I'm the same way with my own health, I pay professionals for their advice and do my own reasearch then I want the option to make my own decision. In the end, we are all responsible for our own actions.

I'm not that experianced with puppys but my ex wife and I had two 24 week preemies. After 5 months of having a child the NICU I have passed my share of feeding tubes etc. I'm discovering that puppies and human babys are pretty close as far as care and welping and delivering babies isn't to terribably differnt. I have aproached the pup in much the same way we did our son. I even make people wash their hands when they come into my house. The drugas are pretty much the same it's dosages etc I need some guidance with. Deciding to let our last boy go was the hardest thing I ever have had to do but I left the hospital knowing I had done everything I could possibably have done for him including allowing him to go when the time came. I will do no less for any of my animals. I have no reason to believe that there is anything other than low weight wrong with the pup my understanding of preemie care is that you try to buy time for them to mature out of as many problems as possible.

That's great that he was able to get that colostrum right off the bat. That will help a lot. If he's getting on to mom some now, it sounds like he's getting stronger. Often just a little help to get thru those weak first few days is all they need. 18cc for 24 hours does sound like an awfully small amount. I don't have my book here with me, but I always just use my fingers to feel for a nice full belly and go from there. Not drum tight, but nice and rounded.

Pup update. It looks like I won this one! The little pup has been eating on his own compleatly for several days and is gaining weight very nicely. He is off meds today with no apperent problems. I did need to give hime some immodium last night and that seemed to take care of his issues. I left the litter for most of the morning and they did fine.

There is no question in my mind that had I not had the vidio and followed the vet's instructions that this pup would be dead now. I am going to give her a call and discuss what happened with this litter before I go to another vet. If nothing else she may give the next person a little better advice in terms of feeding volumes, plus she is close to my age, nice, pretty and single <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />