I'm about to get my first working bred GSD. I have been looking at Schutzhund and French Ring Sport since I have both club types near me. So far I've just been emailing the club directors. I'm not sure which would be better for a new person to dog sports of this style. So far both clubs seem to think they would be good for the beginer, but what do you think?

~Jamie

Hi Jamie - depends on what your new dog would be more suited for in drives and temperament, and also which training director/club is more willing to help newbies. Not all clubs are as willing to help newbies as others. Best thing is to call the club contact person, and ask if you can come watch their training. Go watch, ask questions, and decide for yourself which club, and which training styles you like the best for yourself, and which you feel more comfortable doing - also you will get a feel of the club itself - if they are friendly and willing to answer your questions, they will probably be willing to help you train your dog. Some clubs are full or not open to new members either - have to find that out. Good luck! When are you getting your new pup?

Molly

My pup is due on the 18th of this month. So I can't get him untill around March 18th. Thanks for your reply. What prompted me to ask about this is that the FR club director emailed me last night and was talking about private lessons and club meetings. I was a little suprised to learn they have several young pups already in training (9 and 12 weeks old) and she offered private lessons to me at 8 sessions for $125. I am a dog trainer too, and I thought it was really low for private lessons. I did give her my phone numbers so we could talk. I'll get more answers that way. Both clubs are open to newbies and have welcomed me to come and meet and greet sometime at a meeting or two.

~Jamie

Take a look at both clubs and watch very closely their helpers. Pick the club with the best helper, the rest is simple training stuff. Either FR or SchH are good sports, I wouldn't suggest one over the other.


I don't really like that the club trainer is soliciting you for private lessons, though. That's not what I like to see when you approach a training club. Clubs should be groups with shared expenses, not a tool for someone's business.

>>I don't really like that the club trainer is soliciting you for private lessons, though. That's not what I like to see when you approach a training club. Clubs should be groups with shared expenses, not a tool for someone's business.

***Agree Robert...This is what put up a 'red flag' for me...Really defeats the purpose of a club...If you're being charged private lessons...Then it's not a club. Clubs are what makes training 'affordable' for most of us...since the expenses are spread out and certainly much more reasonable than what the individual had been quoted...And IMO, there are advantages and one could even say a necessity for training amongst others with your pup/dog which is simply not possible in 'private sessions'...Can we think '$$$' as the primary motivating factor??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

private sessions in Ring have nothing to do with a 'club'...In Ring a dog must be worked/trained amongst noise, other people, dogs, distractions etc...Private sessions are definitely a huge disadvantage...This isn't OB. Groups, crowds, environmental stimuli are all vital and necessary.

Not really sure how 'private sessions' are connected to 'club meetings'?? (IOW proceed cautiously and ASK the right questions)

Yes Ring dogs begin their training as early as 8 wks of age. This is 'normal'.

EIGHT sessions for 125.00??? Man that's expensive! Has this person told you that on average it takes 3-4 sessions per week (many times these are double sessions) for about 2-3 (yes I said 3) years to train in Ring and get the dog ready to trial for the first time?--and that's if the dog is good enough and the handler/trainer knows what they're doing; and that's training ALL year round.

I don't know...but you do the math...That price is 'unreal' when you consider that an individual in a CLUB, pays on average 400/year for at least 2 sessions/week and many can train more often than this per week at no extra cost by getting together outside of club days with other members...In comparison your ballpark figure is going to run you over $3,000/year! Have you spoken with other 'club' members...when they started...at what level are their dogs presently? These are just some questions you need to ask and then come to your own INFORMED conclusion...

I just want you to be cautious...I am not criticizing you as you are a 'newcomer' to this...

Out of curiosity...what 'guarantees' is this trainer giving w/respect to an 8 week course...At the end of those 8 weeks...what will or should your pup know? What are your goals with your pup--level? What has this trainer accomplished him/herself (no need to mention names)? Have you seen any dogs this trainer has trained from the ground up to high level competition? How many sessions/week are included in this price...What is the length of these sessions?

Again more questions...

Good Luck! Ring is a lot of FUN and enjoyable for both dog and owner alike...but success is also connected to the CLUB that one trains with. Take your time and do your research. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Mr. Van Camp and others. This sounds like a good way to get some extra money out of you. As an example, our clun disbanded for the winter. Some of them dont like the cold much. But, I hire our helper to keep working with me and my dogs. Im fortunate in that our helper i also great at obedience training, so we can work on both. We work together on obedience for no charge. I help him, he helps me. When it comes to bite work, he charges me $15 a session. A session is as long as it takes for us to accomplish what we wanted to do that day )or if the dog isnt ready, enough for us to head the right direction). A typical session with us is 1 1/2 to 2 hours. We work the dog, put it away, work it, put it away, etc. He brings his dogs to our sessions and I bring one of my other dogs, just so there is distration there. They may be crated in the back of our SUV's but they are there. Plus, it gives us dogs to work during our 'put him away' phases. Bottom line is, I get my sessions for $15/per and I have the option of just paying him $100 and going as many times that month as I want to, which is what I do. During the regular club season we meet 3 times a week by paying our membership, so im set all year. My guy isnt in it for the money. He needs dogs to work over the winter to keep himself fit for helping at trials. The private lessons the trainer is talking about sound like a good way for them to line their pockets a little. Do they think your dog isnt ready for a group? How many club meetings do you get in a week? I would get together a list of questions you want answered before you make a decision and ask the trainer to call you when he/she has time to sit down and talk. That way you can hear his/her answers and know what you would be dealing with.

Thanks everyone! This was very infromative. I would like to clear up one thing. This FR club DOES have regular meetings, I think twice a week. I was just being cautious because the private lesson thing sent up a red flag too. I guess I'm just trying not to get taken for a ride, I want to end up with the best dog possible.

I'm glad that 8 weeks isn't unusual for FR. I was a little skeptical but after reading about all the noise/object imprinting they do I guess it's good they start so young, then they gradually up the ante as the dog gets older. Thanks again.

~Jamie

I hear this happening at some clubs more and more. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Back when I was a member of the largest SchH club in the Greater Atlanta area,we had a helper that only showed up for two training sessions out of a possible eight per month ( and as a helper he was excused from yearly dues, which was a double whammy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> ). Yet this guy had a big portion of the club go and train with him on an off day at his place for cash.
Cripes, that pissed me off that club members would be so dumb to fall for a scam like that! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Hello,
I have a different opinion on this topic. It is really hard for a newbie to get into a dog sport club, at least I think it is where I am from. Also, if the club is large, it is hard to get the personal attention that you need when you start training.
I think $125 is cheap for privates, especially if the trainer is a good helper. I don't think a person should try to lure members away from the club for financial gain. However, some dogs will ned extra hands on work.
Sometimes at my club, I am the only helper at training, and then there is no one to work my dog the way I want. I leave with a back ache, and my dogs not worked. I can work 10 dogs, two rounds, and then the next day, drive 2 hours and pay someone else to work my dogs. It is not always like this, but it does happen.
It is very hard to find a non-profit club to help a new member in all three phases. They may need to go to a trainer for awhile and learn some skills just to be allowed into a good club.
Don't get me wrong, I love the group I train with, but they all share their knowledge and skills. That is why I would never leave.
Being one of the younger guys, in my club, I do a lot of the helper work. So, this is my opinion: I will not vote in any new member that does not show potential to be a great asset to the club, either by doing helper work or bringing something else of importance to the table.
It is expensive being a helper: Chiropractic fees or a serious bite can cost alot and time away from work.