Well I've decided I'm going to go the raw way- the more and more I look at my pup the more I see a dog that is 'just getting by' rather than thriving (underweight etc).
However I've come across another problem.
I found a butchers shop that is well regarded in the community and they are so far and few between now (the supermarkets here have completely wiped out the local community shops)and enquired about him supplying me with chicken backs etc. His reply was, 'Oh I can't supply you with anything like that, it's considered as waste and you need a licence for that. The only thing I can do is quarter a chicken and sell it to you like that. What do you want them for anyway, a soup,broth?'
I replied 'No for my dog' and he said, 'Oh you want petfood?' and I said 'NO, human food'. Then he said, (wait for it...)
'Oh you should feed him the tripe I sell (which is bleached by the way) with Eukanuba!'
I thanked him and left the shop <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Even the supermarkets here don't have meat counters (all pre-packed). There must be other British people that feed their dogs raw. Are any of you out there?
I did find a U.K. site on barf and all they promoted was pre-packed meat like 'Nature's Menu' etc but didn't mention the bone part of the diet.
Any ideas, or I'll have to consider moving across the Atlantic!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Here are two UK forums. I'm sure someone will have info. for you if you ask over there:

Presa Guardian Dog Forum You need to request a password and will have to click Register in the upper right hand corner.

Guardian Dogs

Does anyone know how important the bones are to feed, and what if you feed the raw diet without the bones?

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Does anyone know how important the bones are to feed, and what if you feed the raw diet without the bones?

Absolutely vital. Meat without bones is a nutritional catastrophe to a dog. It can't be overemphasized.

If you read this thread, the answers about RMBs are detailed, along with a link to a site explaining the necessity for the Bs in RMBs.

http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4162298/page/0/fpart/3/vc/1

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Well I've decided I'm going to go the raw way.....
I found a butchers shop that is well regarded in the community and they are so far and few between now (the supermarkets here have completely wiped out the local community shops)and enquired about him supplying me with chicken backs etc. His reply was, 'Oh I can't supply you with anything like that, it's considered as waste and you need a licence for that.

This sounds very odd. Do they cut up chickens and sell drumsticks, etc.? I so, then they have backs. And saying "for broth" would work, wouldn't it? That is indeed what I use to make stock (as do many cooks).

On this site about how to cut up fowl, the very bottom photo has all the pieces labeled.

http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/cutupchicken.htm

"D" and "E" on that bottom photo are the chicken back, which happens to be cut in half but probably would not be when you bought them.

This might be a handy piece of paper to have with you. It's a very clear photo.

I'm sorry I'm not more help. I've never run into butchers who didn't either display backs in the case or have a freezer full! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

What I've run into here with the large supermarkets (not sure why it wouldn't be the same there) is that they get their chicken - whole, halves, breasts, wings, etc. - pre-packaged from a large chicken processer. They buy that stuff by the case. Although they may never order the backs, that same processer has them available. Some meat dep't people - I wouldn't call them real butchers - look at you like the back is not a part of a chicken. If you check at some of the big stores, you may find an employee who knows or will look into their order book and find they can order them. Unfortunately, the price doesn't seem to coincide with popularity, tho.

Mike is right. I found a local super market that can order chicken backs. The only thing I do is give them a one day notice (they get their meat delivered daily) and then I have to bbuy the whole case. But at $27.50 for a 40 pound case, im not complaining! Since we are on the raw topic, does anyone have a good link that tells you how much raw to feed based on the dogs body weight? I have a few dogs and so does my girlfriend and they range from 15 to 105 pounds. So far everyone looks fine on what they are each getting (found what you should feed a 90 pound dog and went from there) but I'd like to be more precise.

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....does anyone have a good link that tells you how much raw to feed based on the dogs body weight?...

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm#daily

Thanks Connie. That was EXACTLY what I was looking for!

Ian - In regard to the 40% of non-RMBs, I would break it down again to 35% muscle meat/veggie mush and 5% organ meats. Liver and kidney are organ meats and are very rich. If you overfeed, you most likely will deal with an upset stomach. Beef heart, hamburg, turkey, mackerel, etc., are considered muscle meat and should comprise about 35% of the diet. I, personally, don't feed veggies, but this is only my preference.

Thank you Jan. I saw on that website where it mentioned that you could use eggs, ground meats, etc as part of the veggie mix and I was just working up a plan to include that. So far im using chicken backs, pork necks, chicken gizzards and hearts, ground beef, sardines and mackeral on a regular basis. I also add a kelp powder and fresh garlic, but Im going to start adding some veggies and im looking into getting some green tripe as well. Im just now doing the switch totally onto raw. Ive been feeding Innova Evo and raw (kibble one eal, raw the next) but im finally ready (and will be at home enough) to go completely raw. Thanks again for reminding me about mixing the organ meats into the veggie mixture. Im sure my boys will like it better that way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />