my intact male, who i had planned to keep intact and possibly breed (working ability, good example of the breed, passed all health tests), and who is a calm, stable dog, has an unfortunate propensity to make quite a mess in our home. sometimes he's asleep, and sometimes it is self-induced (if you get my drift).

this is not incontinence. he does not hump, he does not mark in the house, or do any of the other male-type behaviors that usually cause one to get a dog neutered when young. he has his own beds/towels to lie on all over the house, but once this stuff dries, it really stinks, and it makes a real mess on the carpets. some of his bedding i've just had to throw out because there was no way to clean it.

i'm just wondering if anyone else has ever had this problem with an intact male. he isn't my first intact male, and i've never had this problem before. his breeder says she's never had this problem. and he's never been bred.

he's going on four years old. i'd hate to neuter him just for this, but is there any other solution? and would neutering at this point even work?

I would get him to the vet to check for a prepucal infection.

Julie

That's a gross problem <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> I have two males that are neutered and they never did those things so maybe neutering would help. This isn't the dog who you said had weak nerves is it? I'm sure that's a silly question since you said you were contemplating breeding but I had to ask.

Has he been to the vet yet? My first step would be to rule out medical reasons.

so this isn't normal? he has no signs of an infection. i figured he was just doing this because, obviously, it would be pleasurable to him. i've had intact males before, but they didn't do this.

has anyone else had an intact male who stimulates himself to the point of emission? i've watched this happen, and it is masturbation.

and yes, barbara, it's the same dog. but notice the use of the past tense. i "had" considered breeding him. already went through the debate of whether or not to neuter him if i'm not going to breed him on this forum. my preference is to keep him intact. his "nerve" issues are unrelated to being intact. he had a trauma that he is recovering from very well.

i will ask the vet. but i don't see anything that would lead me to think he has an infection. could you provide more details on why this might be so?

Sorry Alice, I didn't think you were that kind of person but I didn't pick up the past tense. I don't remember the debate.

I heard of a guy in England with a Cane Corso and it did the same things you described. The guy described his dog as dominant and aggressive. Not sure if there's a correlation but that's all he really said about the dog. He didn't feel "Romeo" had a health issue <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Speak to your vet, you'll feel much better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

hi, barbara. he's neither dominant nor aggressive. he's dominant/friendly with other dogs, and totally submissive with us. my understanding of his behavior keeps evolving, and his behavior also keeps evolving. he's a totally different dog now than he was a year ago.

i attribute this to a few things: 1. our older dog, that he grew up with, died about six months ago. ben has grown progressively calmer since then. i have no idea why this would be, but maybe he is thriving on the undivided attention he gets now. 2. we've worked very consistently with him for the last 3 years on his reactivity, to the point that it is pretty well gone at this point. 3. he comes from a line with a very prolonged adolescence, slow-maturing emotionally. he seems to finally be emerging from this period.

if i think of there being a glimmer of him being bred at all, it's only because he has so many other things to offer the breed. but there is no question that he was much more tightly wound than normal for the breed. whether we've mitigated that with our training, or he's growing out of it, i don't know. if i were evaluating him right now, and ignoring his history, i'd think him suitable for breeding. but, i'm not ignoring his history! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

since it's possible his messes could be stopped by neutering (anybody know that for certain?), i'm naturally reassessing for a final time if this dog ever should be bred. a year ago i would have said hell no. now, he's sure turning into a stable dog, and i'm surprised and pleased. but i'm really not seriously considering breeding.

if anyone who has a high strung, emotionally unstable dog is reading this and wondering how we got to this point, i'd have to say that firm, consistent training is at the top of the list. that, and understanding the dog's need to feel safe and protected, and providing him with that security.

i'm very surprised that nobody is piping up to say that intact males do this (masturbate) all the time!

he is high drive, i will say that. and my other intact males were not. but like i said, he doesn't exhibit other typical sexual behaviors. just this one, and the only problem i have with it (other than the gross licking sounds at 3 a.m.) is that it makes a mess.

It sounds like you've done a great job with him <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm glad he got you for an owner; someone savvy enough to help him. I have a dog who lacked confidence and with much time and patience he's like a whole new dog. But bring him in public and put any kind of training pressure or other on him and he crumbles. I have not cured him, I've merely masked an existing condition. I doubt there is a cure <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I don't really care tho, I accept him for who he is.

From what you've described of your dogs stamina, he'd surely be an attribute for the breed in that regard. The confidence issues are what concern me because who knows if he could produce pups that in less skillful hands than yours, could rip a kids face off. Perhaps if you took him to an ultra confident female and were prepared to cull the old fashioned way, and hard, you could get a few outstanding dogs. Too much of a risk to me, and something that should be done by an experienced breeder if at all IMO, but good look with whatever you choose and I mean that sincerely <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re the other issue, did you ask the breeder if she's seen this in her other males?

hey, barbara, thanks for your diplomacy. this is a hot button issue for a lot of people, myself included! the only person that would ever use this dog for a breeding program is his own breeder, and she expressed an interest, though that was some time ago. she's been doing this for 25 years and has an impeccable track record, so her judgment would count a lot with me. i've already told her his temperament is incorrect. he *is* shy, and that is common in the breed, but something you want to avoid.

bear in mind that it is damned hard to find a sound, healthy, athletic mastiff that has passed all its health tests. when there were only seven mastiffs left after WWII, they bred to whatever they could find. she's knocked herself out for 25 years trying to overcome the problems in the breed, and i think has been more successful than most. she's also ruthless about culling from her breeding program, so probably at this point she is no longer interested in ben.

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I have a dog who lacked confidence and with much time and patience he's like a whole new dog. But bring him in public and put any kind of training pressure or other on him and he crumbles.

maybe you just need to give him more time. or move him up to public exposure in smaller increments? ben and i have one major hurdle left, and that is getting him comfortable at dog shows. it's the only place left that i can't take him without him exhibiting fear. i'm going to see where he is with that in six months. the breeders i have met at shows have encouraged me that lots of mastiffs react to showing like he does, and to keep working with him and he'll overcome it. we'll see.

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Re the other issue, did you ask the breeder if she's seen this in her other males?

i mentioned it to her in passing a few years ago, and it was in the context of taking note that he had reached sexual maturity. i should ask her about it now. it is getting to be a more and more frequent problem.

My work dog does this all the time. About 1/4 of our training group has noticed it at one time or another. Personally I have observed it more times than I would like to have. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />