Well I've just returned home from a puppy class with my Dane puppy. The reason I go is purely for socialisation reasons only. It's manic, the dogs can't even here your voice commands so they don't stand a cat in hells chance of being able to mind you even with treats.
Anyway this is our second week and Logan really enjoys meeting the other puppies and having a play etc. He's probably the best behaved there and is quiet and focus' on me most of the time. (I have been training him with Ed's Basic DVD and teaching him a lot of 'watch')
Tonight there was the regulars and a new Alaskan Malamute joined, a really pretty friendly pup.
Half way through class this HUGE Alask. Mal. walked in and sat at the top end of the room- (didn't realise they could get so big <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I then realised that the 2 of them were from the same home. The pup was with the woman and the adult was with the man. We carried on with class and a few people said to me 'Has Logan met him over there yet, he's lovely and not at all aggressive?' I replied 'no' and I weren't really bothered about them meeting anyway.
It was getting to the end of class and the trainer said that to end it we should walk round with our dogs on lead and let them meet eachother again. Everything was going great and Logan loves to have a play around in particular with a black Lab. pup and a SBT pup.
As we were walking towards the 2 he likes this adult lunged up and grabbed him. I pulled him away and then saw all of this blood. He'd bit him on his left jowl. One is just a small puncture but the other is quite deep and big.
The trainers assistant who I know and is a veterinary nurse called us into the back room to have a look and said 'shit! it is pretty deep, bathe it in saltwater tonight and then take him to the vets in the morning.' Then the dogs owner(the woman) came in and deeply apologised and said he'd NEVER done anything like that before and thought it was because he was stood with his sister (the pup) and felt threatened to protect her. Then she offered to pay any vets bills.
AAAAaaargggghhhh!!!! I feel so upset and angry- I didn't protect my dog, even though it came out of the blue, and the only reason I took him there was because I don't want to have an adult Dane that has problems with other dogs. I figured that once he realised they're OK to be around, I would then teach him to ignore them or as Ed says 'to act aloof'.
Now I'm worried that he will be scarred either cosmetically or emotionally or even both!
He did go to play with his 'friends' after the event and doesn't seem bothered by it. Does anyone know how dogs scar compared to us and does anyone think this incident will affect him in the future.
Feel free to kick my ***s. I can't feel any more terrible than I already do <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Just needed to tell someone....Thanks for reading.

Don't know about the physical side, but as for the emotional side, your pup is still very young, from my experience, the residual effects of dog aggression don't show up till the pup is starting to mature, so even though your pup seems OK now, it could come back to haunt you later. My suggestion would be to get your pup as 100% "OK" with other (100% trustworthy, preferably uninteresting/uninterested) dogs between now and whenever your pup starts to mature, hopefully the positive interactions with other (specifically adult male) dogs will be the memories that stick in the dogs mind, not the one bad incident. Always follow something negative with something positive. My boy can't be around male dogs anymore, he just snaps even if he seems OK at first. He's doing better, but I would never trust him in the same house with another male unless he shows some serious proof of change. He's OK with females which is my main reason for choosing a female pup for my next one.

Thanks Mike, I just need to stop him throwing his big daft paw at them all (in play) as it really seems to threaten a lot of dogs (and no he didn't do that tonight, we were just walking past).

Lisa, depending on how he's "throwing his big daft paw around", it could be dominance. Dogs sometimes dominate other dogs by putting paws on them, or trying to climb on them or mount them. Be careful of this because another dog may snap at yours if he/she isn't in the mood to be dominated. I wouldn't worry yet about permanent scarring. If the vast majority of his encounters with other dogs are positive, chances are he'll be ok, and this will remain an isolated incident. Sometimes dogs will become aggressive all around, but sometimes they just will become aggressive to one dog, or one type (un-neutered male, etc.) My shepherd is excellent with ALL dogs of all sizes-except my chihuahua. It took him 2 years to finally hate the little brat, but he hates him, and only him, and does not take out his frustrations with him on any other animal. It's very possible that your pup will be just fine. Keep an eye on body language-it can get ugly before you realize it sometimes. Good luck!

How frustrating! I'd be quite angry! In my mind the owner of the adult dog should have had their animal either downed or sitting under control 100% of the time. Early on when my youngest was a pup we had a run in with two dogs running loose that went after her while we were on a walk. I was able to get the pup to lay down while I drove them off but the other dogs got right in her face. Luckly she isn't a bit dog agressive as an adult. She gives my male a real run for his money before she submits to him. I frequently wonder why he takes so much crap from her.

I never allow my dogs to interact with outside dogs because to some degree they all have a security function and I still remember what could have happened with my youngest.

Even on walks I will either heel or down my dog, depending on the dog, when an other dog is passing.

I hope it works out with your pup.

Hi Lisa!
Kicking you own butt probably will not do a lot of good. You did the right thing but unfortunatly we have not got control over everything in our life. This was an accident! To worry about it too much will probably not be of any good to you or your boy. Like stated in the other posts, follow it up with something positive and continue your original idea of socialising him but without the idea in the back of your head that now every time something will happen. Self fulling prophecies are a bitch (excuse that expression)! He will feel the tension in you and possibly react in an unwanted fashion. This could be, depending on his basic temperament, anything from being fearful of other dogs to becoming offensive and trying to start stuff.
So even though things like this should serve as a reminder that we can not control everything and a certain assertivness is required of us, it should not become something that overpowers your attempt of trying to get your boy out there and make it pleasant for him.
So be optimistic and your boy will probably be just fine.
Of course this is just my opinion.

lisa, so sorry this happened. a nearly identical thing happened to my pup when he was only four months old. a golden retriever attending the same puppy class hauled off and slashed his muzzle out of nowhere. my pup did not really react and showed no future fear of other dogs. however, he became gradually more and more reluctant to take classes in that particular place!

it was unfortunate, as this space is a warehouse room that the entire town's dog community uses for all kinds of classes and training in the winter--agility, conformation, weight pulling, and obedience--and ben became unpredictable in that setting. this didn't really show up though until he was about nine months old.

but elsewhere, he was fine, with the exception of him wanting to fight male golden retrievers wherever he finds them.

you aren't going to know how it will affect your pup for probably quite a while.

the good news is that you have a ton of information about this that i didn't have. i didn't know or understand about the potential consequences, and you do.

so, in future, you'll keep your pup away from unknown dogs.

Jenni,
I'll 'try' to describe the way he does it. He's not a very confident dog to begin with around other dogs. The trainer said at the first class that he was a little unsure of 'new' dogs by his body posture. He doesn't 'dive' straight in like a lot of the pups, he calmly approaches and sniffs them before anything else. When he has made the initial contact, his paw then comes up as what I would describe as a 'gesture' as if to say 'okay you're not so bad, wanna play?' The reason I thought it was an issue was because his paw usually lands either on their head or nose. I take what you mean about the 'dominant' postures and it is hard to recognise this at puppy class because as he's already the size of an adult GSD he stands over them all to begin with <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> However, if a 'little' terrier pup or giddy pup jumps at him (to play) or 'yaps' at him he backs off.
It's a tough one but I'll keep lookout. - Thanks

Chris, Gisela and Alice,
Thank you all for your concern and I know exactly what you mean by 'self fulfilling prophecies' and I won't allow this to happen (well I'll try <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Also Chris, you rarely see a dog in these training classes that is 100% obedient.

I asked 'what on Earth this dog was doing in puppy class?' and was told it was in the next class and was a very sociable dog and that was why it was allowed in to wait.
Huh I wouldn't like an unsociable dog around if that's the case.
Another question, If this dog did 'attack' for the first time (as the owners said) is it likely now to do it again as it was 'allowed' to do this and was not corrected after the event? It was told 'don't do that, that's naughty'
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

The paw thing is a "Great Dane thing" just like leaning against people. It could be dominance, but if that's the case then all the great danes I've seen around here are very dominant <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> But given the lack of real training people give their dogs it wouldn't surprise me. I hate the great dane paw thing, those big ol' clumsy paws hurt when they get to adult size, n it irritates the heck outta my GSD when he gets whacked in the head with this huge paw. If my friends dane is in a sit n i kneel down in front of her to pet her, she keeps raising that paw at me, so I shove her in the opposite shoulder to make her lose her balance, she doesn't "get the hint" though, maybe if I do it often enough she'll learn that raising that big dumb paw of hers at me will make her fall over.