Well this is a hard one. I work at Petsmart in the fish/reptile/small and furry section. I am pretty well versed on how to care for all of those animals quite well and I feel comfortable giving advice on those things.

When it comes to dog stuff, I come HERE for my info. I recently was looking into getting a prong collar to start training my Cane Corso with. He's now 4 mos. old and about 45lbs. I was gonna wait another month or so before getting it, but I was trying to do all my research here and on Ed's main site.

Well, like an IDIOT, I went to our store dog trainer and asked her... "Whats a good age for the dog to start using a Prong Collar for dog training?" She looked at me like I was the worst person in the world and replied with, "Why in the WORLD would you want to HURT your dog to train it?"

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

She then proceeded to tell me how horrible they were and how they aren't needed and pain this and that yada yada yada. I was awe stricken. She ACTUALLY used the line, "I've ben training for 25yrs and..." follow that with whatever.

I tried to tell her my ideas/reasons behind wanting to use one and even mentioned Ed, his experience with training and his recommendations on how he suggests using a prong collar based off the articles I've read numerous times on his main site.

Now she's made me feel guilty for wanting to use the prong collar for training at all. What do I do? I've read so much PRAISE on this site about them. I really just want to prove her wrong in a polite and professional way honestly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I thought to myself... "Just b/c you've been training for 25 yrs doesn't mean you're doing it correctly."

Uhhgg, she made my stomach hurt...

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.....Now she's made me feel guilty for wanting to use the prong collar for training at all. What do I do? ..... I really just want to prove her wrong in a polite and professional way honestly......Uhhgg, she made my stomach hurt...

Since you probably have to maintain a civil relationship, how about a wide-eyed stare and a puzzled "Then how do YOU mimic the mother dog's teeth corrections on her offspring?"

That person almost does not sound worth the trouble of explaining.......only because she sounds completely self-righteous and holier-than-thou.

But if you do want to, you'll find plenty of expert backup all over the Leerburg site, as well as many others. Just Google DOGS, PRONG COLLAR.

Here's one:
"A stronger alternative to the chain collar, is the prong collar. Before taking this approach, a professional obedience instructor should be consulted to learn its proper use. It looks like a “wicked instrument of torture,” but used properly can be more humane than the chain collar. Advantages are that it does not choke the dog or constrict the windpipe. Another advantage is that it does not wear the hair off around the dog’s neck, which is a plus with long-haired dogs. It pinches rather than chokes...." from CanisMajor.com.

And this site is pretty clear about its advantages, too:
http://www.vizsladogs.com/ARTICLES/pinchcollars.htm

You could print any or all and ask to discuss them with her.

Please don't allow someone else's judgment or dismissal affect you when you are doing the research and learning new things. She is close-minded -- you are not.

They sell prong collars at Petsmart. I had a simular discussion with someone else. Just do the bobble head thing and train they way you see fit. I like the marker training for puppies and teaching new skills but when you get real problems like gate bolting and "I don't feel like listening today" then you'll be glad you had a prong.

I just managed to convince a family member to let me use a prong collar on their 2 year old pit bull. He weighs about 70 lbs. and is strong as an ox. He would drag me all over the yard without it. Once they got the collar from Leerburg and I put it on him, they were surprised. After he "self corrected" a couple of times, he figured out trying to plow ahead wasn't a good idea and started behaving more civilized. Now, he can be walked and obedience trained.
I think you just have to do your research and make the decision you feel is best for you and your dog. There are always going to be close-minded people who are not opened to learning anything new.
I do not have near as much experience as others on the board, but in my opinion, a properly fitted and used prong collar is not cruel or harmful to a dog.

I have had several people approach me and ask about my prong and my well behaved young GSD. I have shown a few people how to use them, sent a number to Ed's site. No-one has complained that the dog was injured, instead all reported immediate improvement in their dogs' behavior.

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. . . She ACTUALLY used the line, "I've ben training for 25yrs and..." follow that with whatever. . .


I tried to tell her my ideas/reasons . . .

Your mistake! I think that's another form of "handler error." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I've found long ago there are so many clueless people out there (not just about dog training) that it's a waste of my energy to try and enlighten them. Just train with the equipment and methods you feel are best for your situation. Somewhere down the road, if this woman ever observes your well-mannered dog, you can just say two words to her- "Prong collar!"

Although I'm sure you already know this, GO WITH A PRONG! Don't listen to what those trainers say. I have found that most trainers don't have a clue what they're talking about and treat a dog like it's an infant. I would start a prong collar from day one. I think with a dog as strong willed such as a Corso it is very important to begin to establish your pack rank as young as possible. Just keep it gentle with the corrections <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had a petsmart trainer tell me the same thing as I was minding my own business picking up a prong collar for my Boxer. I just did the bobble head thing as Dennis suggested and went about buying my prong collar.

The bottom line for me is this... any physical correction I give my dog has to be appropriate and for me to know that, I have to know what the correction feels like. I've tested my prong collars on myself. I put the prong collar around my thigh and yanked the hell out of the leash... pulling as hard as I could pull, I would say it's uncomfortable at worst. I pulled on that thing twice as hard as I've ever pulled on it with one of my dogs so I'm comfortable knowing that the prong collar is (IMHO) really more of a tool for psychological control and is almost never anywhere near what I would consider painful.

It looks like a torture device but compared to a choke chain that most people think is ok, the prong collar is far LESS painful when used properly.

It certainly looks FAR worse. I used to work at a dog supply store in FL and when people came in asking about a way to help control their crazy dog, I would always show them the collar. 99% of them went "no way!" until I told them the story of my huge success with it and then I gave them the pop test on my arm. That usualy won them. I sold many of those things and I am sure the pit bull owners of Tarpon Springs, Florida are thanking me for it!

Ask her why if she has been training dogs for 25 years why she does not have her own training facility yet. Personally, I don't use them...but I have in the past and there is NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM when used properly! NOTHING. In fact, I might just go buy one tomorrow and see what type of response I get...as my reason for not training with one is simple...I lost my old one. LOL. I need to take a dog to petsmart anyway for some socialization.