Hi All,

I've a couple of questions on the prong....

I've been using the prong with my bhoy on and off now for about 6 weeks, mainly during walks to try and train the heel, but I have done some long line work to train the come.

He was fine up until a couple of nights ago when he started to lean his head to the left side (where the prongs are) and try and scratch his neck with his back leg while walking.

I've had a gentle feel around his neck, and while I'm no vet there doesn't seem to be anything wrong, he doesn't even flinch, and he's fine with his flat collar.

So I was thinking it was maybe the way I had fitted the collar so i took it off and refitted but the same thing has been happening???? It's not too tight, if anything it's a fraction too slack but removing a prong makes it too tight.

So I'm back to the flat without a problem but wondered if there may be something I'm missing? He does have a thin neck and not very full of muscle yet.

I'll be taking him to the vet this week to be checked out anyway but has anyone else seen this?

And yes I've read and re-read Ed's article on fitting a prong and like I said this has just started happening.

Cheers

John

Elea stratches her neck too when wearing a prong some times. I just put it up to an unusual feeling with the prongs lying on her neck and it "tickles". Course she doesn't try to walk and scratch, she plops her but down to do so.

Sometimes with either the prong or the e-collar my dog cocks his head sideways n lays his ear flat on one side, it's weird, but I just take the collar off n let him chill out for a while n it seems to go away, never thought anything of it, n as soon as he's barking out the window he forgets all about it n his ears both go up.

years ago we started out with the medium sized (links) prong collar and found them difficult to fit properly. we have since gone to the really small (links) prong collars. they are so much better i can't even tell you. it just stands to reason that the small links will be easier to adjust by adding or removing one or two links and come much closer to fitting the dog properly. not only that, but the amount of pressure needed is reduced a whole lot. prong collars with tiny links (even if you have to combine 2 for size) fitted properly, high on the dog's neck, with a light weight lead held between two fingers is all that's needed for most dogs. we've got one real hard pulling bitch who can drag you to timbuktu if she has a mind to do it, but with the tiny prongs and a light lead she is well mannered and very easy to handle.

Patricia,
Just to clarify, you suggest these smaller links for GSDs?

Polly,
The smaller the link, the stronger the correction.
Those "micro" prongs are just....ouch! But you also have the possibility of the prong bending out of shape when you use the smaller prongs on larger dogs - it takes a good eye for corrections to know the limits of your equipment.

yes, i recommend them for gsds and any other breed provided the links themselves are strong enough to correct the dog without bending, as will suggested. i really can't see them working very well on a "bull-type" neck. the links we use now are between a half and three quarters of an inch at the widest point. some of those prong collars have huge links 1.25" 1.50" or even more. when you think about it, adding or removing one link of that size makes a really big change and harder to get the correct fit.

i'm still learning about prong collars and am not certain i'm optimizing its use on my mastiff.

we have the heaviest prongs made. i think the collar fits him very well (according to ed's video and the article posted on this web site). he is mostly responsive with it, but on occasion he doesn't respond.

for example, we could be out walking on a loose leash, not heeling, he'll decide something is really fascinating to sniff in the bushes, i'll keep walking and i have to throw my whole body into the leash to budge him. he does come along, but not until it turns into a weight-pulling contest.

i'm of the "keep your mouth shut" school of training, so i usually don't give him a command in these situations. i want him to pay attention to me or experience the consequences. i'm open to other ideas, though. if i put him in a heel, this doesn't happen, as he is quite obedient to verbal commands, but i don't want him to have to walk at heel for an entire half hour walk.

would you advise using smaller prongs on him? his neck is almost 30" around and solid muscle. (he was weaned on raw so has much more developed neck and shoulder muscles than kibble fed dogs). he does not have an undercoat, the hair coat is quite thin. and the prong collar is right up under his ears.

ideas?

I'm constantly watching Ed's Basic OB DVD and one thing that has stuck in my mind is 'One hard correction lowers the drive of the dog, but several small repetitive corrections raises the dogs drive.'
If I was you and I do this with my dogs, when they get stuck on a smell or distraction, give them several light pops on the lead towards you and they come running. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Alice... try the medium weight collars and just buy extra links if you need to. I guarantee you will not have to put as much muscle into your corrections.

As Will said, you take a bit of a gamble with the fine weight collars, as an improper correction can bend a prong or pop it all together. They give great corrections if you use them properly. I will use those on my Mal only when we are cleaning up his obedience. For general every day training we use a medium weight.