I would like to do PennHip on my Mal. I asked my vet if I could be present until the dog is anaesthetized and he refused.

My reasoning is as follows. I am my dog's pack leader. He trusts me to keep him safe. If I handed his leash to the vet and walked out, he would believe he was in grave danger and would be, in all liklihood, pretty darned scared. In the future, this dog may decide I'm not such a good pack leader and maybe he better watch out for himself. Thus, I won't hand him off to the vet because I want my dog to feel his trust in me is well placed.

I have never felt this way about any of the other dogs that I have submitted to this procedure, but they were not Malinois and they were much more easy going about strangers. My Malinois is aloof with strangers and quite frankly would really prefer that they not touch him. He has never been aggressive with strangers, he just doesn't care for them. How can I hand this dog to the vet and walk out?

Am I being crazy?

Does anyone know a vet in the Chicago area that does Penn Hip that will let me stay until the dog is under? Thanks for your help.

I wouldn't leave my dog anywhere that I wasn't allowed. What, exactly, is he going to do that you can't watch? I drove up to Madison, WI for Caleb's xrays, as Cindy and Ed recommended Dr.Link. He doesn't use anesthesia. I'd call and ask about Pennhip. I stayed with Caleb the whole time. The name is Spring Harbor Animal Hospital. I don't have the number offhand <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. Good luck.

"My reasoning is as follows. I am my dog's pack leader. He trusts me to keep him safe. If I handed his leash to the vet and walked out, he would believe he was in grave danger and would be, in all liklihood, pretty darned scared. In the future, this dog may decide I'm not such a good pack leader and maybe he better watch out for himself."


You are attributing human emotions and deductive reasoning to a canine, which makes your reasoning faulty.

If your dog believes that it's in "grave danger" because you've handed it to someone on leash and you've left ( a test for the AKC CGC, by the way ), you might want to review it's temperament defects with a professional trainer, because you have a big problem.

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I wouldn't leave my dog anywhere that I wasn't allowed. What, exactly, is he going to do that you can't watch?....

I sure do agree with that.

http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showf...rue#Post4147572

Will's post made me reread the original. Are you concerned about the dog's behavior because of the reasons you stated, or is it the anesthesia and you just want to be there? I think maybe I mistook it, but while I agree with what Will said to a point, I still wouldn't leave my dog anywhere a vet wouldn't let me stay. JMO. I see nothing wrong with wanting to comfort a dog with your presence, but if it's because you're afraid of how he'll react, Will hit it on the head saying you have a bigger problem.

Here are some additional points ( based on my having been a Vet tech for a year, and A PA for several years....grrr, I still hate Medicine! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> )

First - a dog's behavior changes when it's seperated from it's owner. Ya'll think that you are supporting your dog by being present ( there's that "humanizing" at work again ), but most Vet's find that a dog is more submissive and pliable to procedures out of the owner's presence. This is why most animals are taken into the back work area to have labs done, etc.

Next....suppose there's an emergency during the anesthesia? While that's a remote possibility, it could happen. And if it does, you are going to be in the way. And when seconds count, a owner losing their cool and generally being in the way diminishes the possibilty for a good outcome.

Also....anesthesia is usually given in the OR area of the pet hospital ( if they're using a general ), that's an area that ideally the Vet would like to keep as germ free and clean as possible ( think about this for a second...how many of you have been allowed to be with a loved one, even a child, during surgery? They are just times that ya'll need to let the professional's do their job! )

It's not a dark, deep, plot of the Vet against you when they don't want you back there - there are good, valid reasons for you sitting out front and letting them do their job without interference.

Just my opinion.

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Here are some additional points ( based on my having been a Vet tech for a year, and A PA for several years....grrr, I still hate Medicine! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> ).......

Not only are these extremely valid points..........but they remind me of my long-ago days working in an E.R. (human). There's a point beyond which the family is in the way.

And yet.......I still want to be with my dog for most non-sterile procedures.

Ah, the vagaries of the human brain! Will is 100% correct in every point, BUT........ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> , my faulty mind stumbles over some of the indisputable logic.

I don't know how he'd feel. I've never left him with anyone before. Wait...I did hand his leash to an employee at the pet store where I buy my food the other day when I had to take my toddler to use their restroom. The guy said my dog was fine as long as he coudn't see me. It was when he saw me that he acted like he really wanted to be with me. I have also boarded the dog for a week and when I went to pick him up he greeted all of the kennel workers quite enthusiastically that he had come to know during his stay.

I don't know...maybe I am being a big baby about all this. But I am happy to hear any and all thoughts from all of you. I appreciate your insights.

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most Vet's find that a dog is more submissive and pliable to procedures out of the owner's presence. This is why most animals are taken into the back work area to have labs done, etc.

Although I agree with this in general, some day I'll meet a vet who will actually believe me up front when I say "if I'm present, you will be able to do anything you want to this dog, if I'm not, you'll be asking me to join you soon" :-)

But they do generally figure it out pretty fast, I hang out by the door when the dog goes in back, because they will be back out to get me in a few minutes anyway. My dogs are trained/conditioned to allow me to do just about anything to them. Even if it's painful or stressful. That doesn't mean they will allow a stranger the same liberties. Some will, but some of them won't. And the ones that won't aren't going to become submissive when I'm gone, but will decide that since their leader is gone, they are now in charge, and they don't want the procedure the vet wishes to preform.

I'm not saying they can't be handled by strangers, I have never had a problem with them when being boarded at a kennel, moved in/out into an exercise yard, basic grooming before I pick them up, etc.

But I prefer to work with a vet who realizes I am not the average pet owner, I actually know my dogs, and how they will react to things, and my only goal is to make it easiest on everyone involved, dog, vet and techs.

What Will's saying is correct. However, the way it was explained that the vet "refused" made me say what I did about going another route. Somehow, I don't think if the vet had explained things in the way Will did, there would've been this much concern. I also wondered if the anesthesia was the concern, and if so, can sometimes be avoided.