New Dog Gave Warning Bite to Baby
#96562 - 01/30/2006 04:01 PM |
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Seven weeks ago we purchased a two year old Standard Manchester Terrier from a breeder. Maddie was an inside/outside dog and grew up well socialized with animals and older children. We have a three year old, two year old and a one year old baby. It is a very active, noisy household and Maddie has been doing well, but she is not used to young children and if my three year old son approaches her too quickly she will jump up and run out of his way.
I am a stay-at-home mum but Maddie and our Saint Bernard puppy are crated quite a bit due to a)housebreaking training and b)keeping them apart from the kids when I can not supervise. This afternoon, an incident occured and I am trying to determine how best to handle it:
I was at the kitchen table and Maddie was lying in a small bed I bought for her on the floor beside me (Manchesters do not have a lot of skin for padding so they prefer soft surfaces). My one year old son came crawling around the corner and dropped a small toy that he was carrying into Maddie's bed. She was awake, not asleep, and she let out a soft growl and mouthed him on his face - gently, not breaking the skin but a definite territorial reaction. Please note that this entire incident from the crawling to the nipping took less than five seconds to occur which emphasizes the chilling reality of how quickly a child can become traumatized and disfigured from a dog bite. I immediately lept to the floor and corrected her as I comforted my crying baby.
So, I would like to know what I should do now - get rid of the dog bed and put her in her bed when she is in relaxed mode? Have my son give her treats while she is lying in her dog bed so she associates his coming into her bed with food for her? Or, better yet, until my youngest is at least three or four, keep Maddie seperated from the kids in her crate at all times. This is a scary incident because it occured right under my nose. Any suggestions as to how to proceed would be appreciated. I should note that her temperment has been very stable and gentle so far, if that counts for anything at all.
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Re: New Dog Gave Warning Bite to Baby
[Re: Yaz Quintal ]
#96563 - 01/30/2006 04:22 PM |
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Kids and babies don't mix, especially if a dog shows such signs... it's not the risk to your childs entire future physical appearance to try and let this dog interact with your child, if your child isn't old enough to understand how to treat a dog then you need to make every interaction a controlled one. This means not letting your dog off leash on a doggy bed with your 1 year old crawling around, ever, period, end of story.
I'm not the kinda guy that says "get rid of your dog" because I think someone that really cares about their dog is able to change their lifestyle just enough to where dogs and kids can both live happy, yet seperate lives in the same home. This means dog crates and supervision.
If someone can offer some training advice on how to "fix" this problem or give an explanation of the psychology behind "why" it happened, feel free to post - but as far as I'm concerned, I'm not willing to risk a childs safety in the name of dog training.
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Re: New Dog Gave Warning Bite to Baby
[Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ]
#96564 - 01/30/2006 04:23 PM |
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*Correction: "not WORTH the risk"...
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Re: New Dog Gave Warning Bite to Baby
[Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ]
#96565 - 01/30/2006 04:57 PM |
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As you said in your post, this dog is not used to young children and all of a sudden she has 3 to contend with. IMO she probably felt threatened that your baby was invading her space/suddenly appeared from nowhere and she was in her bed having time out. I would get rid of the extra bed and have her use the crate when time out is needed/wanted, then you must have the children understand that when the dog's in her crate she must be left alone. I think that crawling/toddling babies are either a threat or a prey item to a lot of dogs and should definitely be kept apart and also your new dog is still a 'new dog' that you don't know very well and which cannot be trusted yet. I would start to socialise them together by having your children sit on your knee allowing them to pet/offer treats gently to her.
Good Luck <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Take it slowly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Re: New Dog Gave Warning Bite to Baby
[Re: Yaz Quintal ]
#96566 - 01/30/2006 05:40 PM |
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Suppose you were an idiot.
Suppose you were a member of Congress.
But I repeat myself.
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Re: New Dog Gave Warning Bite to Baby
[Re: Mike Armstrong ]
#96567 - 01/30/2006 06:37 PM |
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Thanks everyone for the helpful advice. Mike, I understand that my situation looks overwhelming and I am not one of those people who think that a dog is really a child with fur. As for getting rid of Maddie, I have no problem rehoming a dog that is not a good fit for our environment but based on my years of raising and training dogs, my gut tells me it is more of what Lisa said so succintly in her post - Maddie is not yet adjusted to our home and the kids. I have seen dogs that have unstable temperments, fear aggressive responses and dominant posturing, but her warning bite this afternoon was done very calmly, if that makes any sense. She has had a litter before and the way she mouthed my son is the same way she has mouthed our Saint puppy - gently but with a purpose. PLEASE do not think I am justifying her actions - no matter how you view it, a dog bite by any other name is still just as dangerous. Maddy does enjoy her crate and I have no trouble crating her when the little ones are about - the dogs are crated in the family room so they are observing of the action without actually being part of it. Up until today, Maddy has never been in her bed with the little ones around - she usually only interacts with them when we are outside going for walks, or if I am getting them to give her commands and treats for training and socializing.
The breeder we got Maddy from is very reputable and she met my family before we took Maddy and said that she would not place her with us if she felt she would be aggressive (the breeder has four children herself but her youngest is 10 years old).
And as for our Saint pup - he does not figure into the equation here because you could not ask for a more gentle, laid back pup. He is our second Saint and a well-bred Saint is unequivocally wonderful with children (still supervised of course).
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Re: New Dog Gave Warning Bite to Baby
[Re: Yaz Quintal ]
#96568 - 01/30/2006 08:08 PM |
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i really don't understand. why is this worth taking on? the dog sounds like it is a poor fit for your household. it is two years old and inexperienced with small children. you either need a young puppy (which you already have) who you can socialize with your kids, or you need an older dog that already knows and is at ease around small children. this dog is neither.
i would chalk it up to bad timing (kids too young, dog too old), and rehome her. i just don't see what is to be gained by taking this training/dog management problem on. there's too much at stake with a baby/toddlers in the house.
i don't intend this to be the last word. it's jmho.
working Mastiff |
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Re: New Dog Gave Warning Bite to Baby
[Re: alice oliver ]
#96569 - 01/30/2006 08:14 PM |
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I wouldnt even chance it in that situation. Re-home the dog if possible.
"Justice"
Natz vom Leerburg SchH II
9/9/01 - 7/29/05
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Re: New Dog Gave Warning Bite to Baby
[Re: Patrick Hennigan ]
#96570 - 01/31/2006 05:56 AM |
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Again, thanks for the candid opinions - it is why I love this site. It's funny, up until the incident happened yesterday I always thought it was a no-brainer: dog bites or mouths a child, get rid of it. I could never understand those parents who made excuses for their dog or tried to quantify the situation that led to the nip. I have re-homed without blinking an eye three puppies and dogs in the past 7 years due to displays of aggression, yet here I am hesitating with Maddie.
I think what I am struggling with is that Maddie has been wonderful up until yesterday. I've watched her carefully for signs of aggression and she displayed none. She licks the kids and is gentle with them, jumps out of my son's way if he runs too quickly at her, never snaps at me when I correct her, etc. When we took her in to get spayed our vet and his staff marvelled at how sweet-natured she was. And, I guess the hardest part of all is that I have bonded with her - we are finishing an obedience class and are starting agility classes next week. Even the dog trainer in the class was smitten with her sweet-nature.
We have had young puppies of unstable temperaments and have placed them in adult-only homes. We had a dog last year, a wheaton terrier who was child friendly and submissive from 9 weeks of age until 7 months when it froze and growled when eating and my son walked by. Within a week I found an adult-only home because I refused to take a chance on my children being bitten. I was thrilled to find Maddie because she was a dog who had proven herself around children (older, mind you) and animals. I meet her parents and seemed to be from a temperamentally sound line. So, what I have to ask myself is do I give her back to the breeder (who would take her back willingly) or do I trust my gut, which says that she is young enough and sound enough to be conditioned to small children - NOT that it means I recreate the scenario that led to her feeling threatened, but continue to crate her while the children are young. That is not as bad as it seems - the dogs are for me, not the kids. The Saint is a show dog and is training to be a therapy dog for a local children's hospital. Maddie is my jogging partner and I plan to do competitive agility with her. The time I spend with the dogs is early morning before the kids get up, during the time they are in nursery school, and after 7pm when the kids have gone to bed. They are crated during the time I am busy with the little ones, unless we go out for a family walk together. Like I said in a previous post, yesterday was the first time Maddie had close interaction with my one-year old when he was starting to crawl into her bed.
So thanks again for the opinions and the decision I make has to be one that places my kids first.
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