OK,
I thought I knew most of the dogs in my neighborhood...The other day I was running with my male gsd and could see a fairly small woman with a VERY large rottie up ahead. They seemed to be "arguing." He was jumping all over the place, pawing at her, tossing his head. I crossed the street and we ignored them as we ran by. He was wearing a head halter and he just about knocked her down trying to get at us. At one point she got him in a sit, stood in front of him and tried to say "hi". Please lady, just leave us alone! As soon as she took her eyes off of him he started all over again. My question. How effective is a halter on this type of animal? Are they able to wiggle out of it? Shouldn't there be a secondary collar attached somehow?

I've been told that they snap easily on a strong dog and a link attachment is now available to add a flat collar for extra safety. It sounds like the dog was protesting to wearing one as so many dogs do for a long time. I see this a lot being in the goody goody, halti-wearing U.K. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, he was certainly protesting. I don't think a flat collar reserve would have helped in this situation. I think I'm going to start running with a piece of hockey stick. Or maybe I need a cattle prod. :mad

I find no place in dog training for a head halter. It is my opinion that they are a terrible training aide (I explain this in my training DVD's). Handlers cannot give an effective correction with a head halter(as you found out)

In addition if a handler does want to tray one they sould NOT use a FLAT COLLAR - they should use a PRONG collar or a REMOTE COLLAR as a back up - or better yet DONT USE THE head halter TO BEGIN WITH.

From your description of the size of the dog and the size of the women - this dog should have been on a REMOTE COLLAR and not a head halter.

Handlers need to be realistic when it comes to the strength of their dog and their own ability to control the power in the dog.

You bet! Just had an awful experience with one that led me to research and find this website. My Rott mix went through "feisty Fido" classes (no laughing)and "graduated" with a new clicker and "gentle leader" head harness. This week she freaked when a little Maltese attacked her on our walk. It kept biting her and my dog was reacting. I pulled so hard on the leash to get her attention the clasp broke, but really by then it was too late. I will never use one of those again even though I was told the prong collar was cruel. So is a dead Maltese. So is the damage to my dog. This just happened three days ago. She isn't the same. Neither am I - this is a horrible thing to deal with. I'm still reading your articles to figure out what to do (I've ordered your prong collar and aggressive dog collar as back up and am guessing I need pepper spray too)but if you can shorten my search to more articles I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

Ed, My reason for this post was to try and determine how likely this dog would be able to break free from its owner with a halter on. I agree with what you say on your DVD's about them and train with a prong collar.

Lori - I probably didn't make it clear enough. It is VERY likely it will break free. Mine did. I have a Rott mix. She is not as strong a full blooded Rott, and she's old and arthritic. They are awful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I second that. My GSD/chow?lab? mix broke the clasps on both a halty and a gentle leader. She is 75 pounds and very strong when motivated. She is now on a prong and dominant dog collar. She is calming down rapdly.

Out on a limb with this one. Halter collars/ gentle leader were initially designed for service dogs-in-training for helping people with poor grip strength or upper body strength--people unable to guide their dog with a flat buckle collar/harness--or provide a correction. It provided a good way for these individuals to manage the dogs. It was used on the dogs from when they were very young pups in training. It's application has been misunderstood and misused. It has been a great tool for many of the service dogs in training and their handlers. I think they can be a poor substitution for legitimate training and long term training results with the wrong dog and handler. I used a Gentle Leader with my now 6 year old for about three months when she was a youngster. She did not fight it tremendously, however. She needed it because my mom was helping me with her care as a pup and she just couldn't control her like I could on a walk. Sita learned to walk nicely with my mom and I weaned her off it. If my mom does walk with her now, she will use it when its icy outside. JMO and experience.

I agree with ed, halties and gentle leaders have no place in training. The idea that a dog is only thinking about what they are looking at is rediculous. Though if they are going to be used, like any other training aid, the dog must be conditioned to it.