can anyone tell me anything about her breeding?

Linebred 3-2 on Don Haus Iris, 6,5-5,5 Don vom Rolandsteich.
A few appearances of each of Held vom Ritterberg, Golf vom Ritterberg, and Xito vom Baruther Land within seven generations. Several appearances of Bernd vom Lierberg, Ingo von Rudingen, and Ex vom Riedstern off the papers to the tenth generation. I know that's far back, but enough to be of some significance whereas if the males reproduce themselves. It's not what I would call overly linebred, more systematically spread out, due to the popularity of the dogs in that timeframe. Not like overly linebred Mink/Fero crosses I've seen. I don't have much experience with Don vom Rolandsteich progeny, but I do have a couple with him on the fifth or sixth line. If you read this thread...
http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showf...0&fpart=all
When Ed says "rank drive ass hole", I have reason to believe he's not alone. My three month old is buckin' for pack leader already amongst all the adult dogs.

Hi Daryl and Ann-
I would have to agree about dominance in these lines. I wouldn't have said it quite the way Ed did, but it IS accurate. They definitely test you. 100% consistency is the only way to go. Give an inch...and so on. My boy is a Don R. great-grandson, but his father is usually referred to as a "clone" of Don, so I guess it's not all that surprising that he behaves much in this way. However, I think the good far outweighs the bad. In my experience, they're very clear-headed-much more likely to "think" through a situation than, say, a ball-crazy mal. These dogs are often criticized for lack of drive, but I think that they are just often times more serious, and less likely to engage in games with a stranger. Mine won't pay any attention to someone attempting to play tug with him. He'll tug my arm off at home, but outside he's all business. Not fearful in new places-just not interested in games. We had a slow start in PP because of this. They also seem to mature very slowly, males in particular. Mine is very stable, trustworthy w/children, a "thinker", and a dominant s.o.b. Not aggressively dominant; just stubbornly so. Not a dog to turn around and snap at you, but one to fight a "platz" or any other submissive-type command for long enough to be frustrating. Just maintain the alpha position from day 1, and don't give him/her an opportunity to take this postion for one minute, or it's gonna be a long road back. Personally, I wouldn't trade 99% of his personality/temperament for anything.

well, that's all well and good, i don't see how dogs 7-10 gens back have much influence on the genetics of the bitch in question.

i've read and seen enough about dom von rolandstiech, i wonder about dom vom haus iris: what about him? he's close enough to have some REAL influence, and i haven't been able to find out much about him or his progeny. any input?

also, i'm thinking that the dom von rolandsteich is diluted enough to perhaps not be "..rank drive ass hole..." as his sons/grsons evidently tended to be. i hope.

so, any more thoughts? i know that this forum tends to not be big fans of DDR dogs, but i'm hoping for unemotional, clear-headed thoughts on the bloodline/genetics on this bitch.

and thanks!

 Quote:

i don't see how dogs 7-10 gens back have much influence on the genetics of the bitch in question.

In most pedigrees it probably wouldn't have much influence. But when you have for example, a single dog like Ex v Riedstern, who appears over two dozen times in the 7th, 8th, and 9th generation, this comprises over 8% of the dogs genetic makeup. To me, that's significant. That's just assuming that his traits were not favorably produced in his offspring. His contribution is probably much greater. Xito works out to over 6%. Combined, that's a pretty big chunk.

You might think this is over-simplification, or over-complicatioin, either way. But in this particular dog's pedigree, I think it's a valid perspective that should be examined. It appears to be a long, evenly spread linebreeding. Now, if a single trait can be faithfully passed down several generstions from only one dog, I think it's a good bet that from one dog two dozen times the odds have improved. There was an outcross here or there, but the breeding appears more systematic, more methodical than many, whether by accident or planning or just breeding the "in" dogs of the day, I couldn't say.

My boy's a 6-6 on Don R, one line reaching through Don Haus Iris, the other through his full sister Lissy Haus Iris. I think Jenni's view is probably a good one. Her Caleb is already an adult, I'm still growing with Cezar. I don't believe he's bad in anyway, he's actually very obedient. He gives me his undivided attention when I want it, but does his own thing when I don't. I'm just watchful of his behavior around the other dogs and the probability of him becoming overly aggressive toward them. He's never been disobedient (even when that tasty lookin' cat struts on by) and really is pretty smart, once his attention span got more focused.

Why do you ask, and what do you want to know specifically?

http://www.zwinger-vom-goldgrundsbach.de/Bilder/Held2.jpg

Here's a littermate. All I need to know.

daryl-
is that Heidi? where is she (do you know?). at any rate, i AM impressed with your math--i'm too lazy (ok people, now you know my deep dark secret) to do it, and it may "bite me in the a$$".

at any rate, i have a gorgeous pup arriving on sunday, i have my butt covered on the hip/registration issue, i'm not gonna let a rank drive (if he has it) pup rank over me, and i'm looking forward to training.

next question: the closest Sch club is within driving distance, but how do i find out if it's WAS? i'm talking omaha, NE. i'll be writing to the TD soon to scope out the attitude there, but if anyone has any suggestions, i'll sure listen!

Ann, congrats on your pup. I know it was an agonizing decision for you. Also, good luck finding a good club/trainer. You may encounter some resistance from some Sch. people with regard to your boy's lines, and perhaps drives/temperament; I did. (BTW, I take back my earlier attempt at trying to sugarcoat Ed's "rank drive assholes" comment. It's totally true <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. The last few months being Caleb's "leader" have been truly eye-opening, and bringing another GSD into the mix has done wonders to strengthen his desire to rule the universe with an iron fist <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. I guess 2 little dogs weren't enough to bully.)Be patient and you'll find someone/someplace that's a good fit for you guys and all the shopping around will be totally worth it. They DO mature slowly, so just because you think he SHOULD be ready, doesn't mean he IS ready. Not trying to lecture; I just went through a lot of trial and error trying to find where we fit in-Caleb is NOT cut out for sport. (His "winning personality" would NOT make him a favorite of the judges <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.) Hmmm, I've had 2 trainers tell me he's exactly like ME...perhaps that is also why *I* am not a favorite <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Also, there are a LOT of HUGE egos in the world of dog-training...beware that egos don't present a detriment to your dog...for example, table-training a young dog just to prove to his clearly stupid female owner that he's lacking in all areas necessary for protection work <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />.

Hi Ann,

That was Held vom Goldgrundsbach. Wish you well with your new pup <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />