I'm posting this because I just had a nice discussion with a new member about her experience with seeking out an evaluator in the past and the results were not satisfactory. And I'm sad and a little pissed off about the time that this person lost due to an evaluation that wasn't valid ( in my opinion ) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm not going to name any names ( the poster that had this discussion with me may do so if she chooses to ) here, I'm not trying to beat anybody up, this more of a lesson that maybe new people can learn from - so take it that way, ok?

Ok, a relatively new but smart dog owner gets a puppy from import ( SchH titled ) parents and is interested in the sport. She lives in a kinda isolated area and she doesn't have too many choices regarding getting her dog looked at, so she takes her dog for a SchH evaluation from a trainer with a spiffy website.

The trainer's test consisted of opened an umbrella rapidly and the dog went behind it's owner. The trainer declared that the dog was not suited for SchH and no further testing was done. At all..

The owner has watched the dog grow up with good nerves and good drive but she never did anything with the dog due to that trainer's evaluation. And now that she's read up here on the board, she's pretty sure that she made a mistake with that trainer.


Worse ( and here's where I come in ) yet, I let the poster know that the trainer that did the evaluation has *never* titled a dog in SchH.
So her dog got part of an AKC CGC test ( the evaluator was a CGC evaluator ) and from that small part of a test that didn't evaluate drives, it was dismissed as having any SchH potential.
*Sigh*

I'm hoping she takes another look at the sport or at least tries Agility or something fun for her and her dog.
All those years wasted.....


The learning point of this tale is that if you're going to have your dog evaluated for something ( SchH, ppd work, Agility ) make sure that the evaluator actually knows what they're talking about. And it wouldn't hurt to require *proof* of the evaluator's credential's before you plop money down for testing or training.

I think that you Mods should make a little list to help people like this out. I think that most people would be able to then, do this on their own. I detest people that evaluate for a charge. Maybe that should be on the list for people "not" to evaluate your dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Great post Will.

Unfortunately there is also another twist to this kind of 'trainer' that new people should also be aware of.. (not talking of the same trainer, just in general) and another reason to make sure the 'trainer' is legit.

There are many people out there that will tell you what you want to hear. A dog may be FAR from suitable for this kind of work, but many 'trainers' will tell the new person that their dog is the best thing since sliced bread.. and continue to push the dog and take your money at the same time.

Look for a trainer that does NOT say your dog is perfect.. no dog is perfect. You want someone who does not sugar coat, that way you know EXACTLY what you have to work with. This of course is the flip side to the experience Will is talking about. It is hard being new to the working dog scene... soooo many people out there that have NO clue whatsoever!

I really hope this person goes out there and tries again!

Good luck!

It also wouldn't hurt to get your dog evaluated by multiple different people if someone says your dog can't do it (and I don't mean it to sound like a "mommy said no so maybe daddy will say yes" type thing... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />. I've heard various stories of experienced trainers giving bad evaluations then getting proven wrong, if you're looking to title a championship dog then maybe taking an evaluation more seriously makes sense... but honestly, if you're looking to title a championship dog, well, you should be able to evaluate your own dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OOOOOO I forgot about those buttwads. I have seen k9prosports. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This happened to me!! Years ago, I got a wild hair up my you know what, & took my perfectly nice schutzhund sport dog for herding lessons. The guy "evaluated" my dog & told me how great he would be at herding, so I signed up for his 8 week course. My dog only saw the sheep as "meal on the hoof", but towards the end of the 8 weeks, the guy tells me he sees some improvement.......I "re-upped" 2 more times before I figured out the guy just wanted my $$. (yeah, I know, dumb on my part). Anyway, I know my dog got a big laugh out of the whole thing.

Jeff,
that's not a bad idea, I might take a litle time and make a thread about what to look for in an evaluator and trainer and what questions to ask as a novice.

And ya'll can add other suggestion once we get that thread going.

Hey, I had the same evaluation done about 10 years ago. By some screwball here in the Kansas City area. I will drop names, Don Shipman is his name and he is a total f*** up!! He totally ruined any aspirations that i had at the time with that particular dog. However, he was totally wrong in evaluating a dog that was less than a year old in this manner. If you are ever to read this Don Shipman know that you are a total loser and a Nazi who loves to beat on Small animals to get it up!!!! Jamey Scott Metz

I am the person who contacted Will today about my experience with the UMBRELLA trainer.
As a novice, I went to this evaluation with enthusiasm and puppy just the same. At that time, MoJo was 6 months old. I was so honored his mother was an import from Germany holding SchH II titles and Father was a show dog here in the states. I felt obligated to follow through with my dog's heritage, and have a lot of fun doing it and the whole subject was new to me and I wanted to learn.
I will never forget how I felt when the umbrella landed on the floor in front of us. MoJo did jump back and go behind me, but he DID then approach the umbrella. That is what I remember the most, his nose stretched out, ears back.
The trainer said "NOpe" and went on to say the dog wasn't SchH material. He made it sound that the time and money it would take were too much and it wasn't worth it.
Given my state of shock and dismay, looking back, I am surprised I didn't challenge this thinking, that I didn't go on and really push the issue. His "musculature cloak of compentency" got me. I wasn't gonna push him or his word. He wasn't necessarily intimidating, but the 2 live rotties in the corner sitting like statues pretty much explained to me this guy knew his business.
What I have learned from this experience is that knowledge is the only guard.
Being a novice in this playing field is, I think safe to say, unlike being a novice on any other field.
Live and learn. Glad I'm here and gaining some good insight.

Hmm interesting post. I just observed a training session at a local Sch Club last week. This weekend I am going again to be informally assessed--My understanding it is to introduce the dog to the arena and for club members and trainers to observe my relationship/ interaction with Nandi and show them his obedience stuff, etc. There was no discussion of $. unless I wanted to sign up for 5 sessions to determine if this is a sport I want to pursue or if Nandi had potential to earn a title. This sport is uncharted territory for me and I am checking everything carefully.
I had been told that learning SChutzhund and learning herding are at the same time is not recommended (having to do with drives--and control of conflicting drives). I don't know. Nandi has been assessed with herding and shows excellent potential too. I may work on that first and go to Sch later. Just a thought. Its seems like a very very fun sport for the dogs.