I posted part of this in another thread and I've gotten four PM's requesting to make it a separate topic, so here goes:

The types of training classes:

Most common that I see is an actual chartered obedience club ( Aligned with the AKC and can hold sanctioned trials and matches ) or the ob portion of a breed or kennel club. In these classes the instructors are volunteers and the quality varied greatly. Some times you get a good, knowledgeable trainer, but sometimes you get a club member that may not have much experience and doesn't really know what they're doing.
You have two types of students in these classes - club members that working a competition dog up through the ranks, and the non-club members that have paid for the class.

Classes run by "Pet Shop" or the branches usually suck. The instructors are usually marginal at best, and they're under the thumb of the store, so they're hamstringed in how they can even teach. Plus the class is usually full of unmotivated students being trained in a 15' x 20' area, way too small to be even able to heel.

Classes held at professional kennel sites - these tend to be more serious classes ( and *far* more expensive ) and unfortunately also range widely in trainer experience and instructional skill. You can train with hard-core top level instructors ( for beginning classes you're usually going to be trained by the assistant ) and for someone serious about training, these can be the best choice if you get the right instructor.



Now, this is just my opinion, but it doesn't hurt to ask the instructors what their experience is and what their training philosophy is.

An instructor for the AKC ob clubs should at least have a few CD titles under their belt as a minimum, and a UD or two is a sign that the instructor is at least a serious competitor, which usually translates into being a better instructor.

For the Pet Smart type instructors, don't bother, the odds of them having a title or competing is slim-to-none.

For the Kennel site/ Professionals - now *here* is where you should be asking to *see* their titles, and trophies, etc, etc. There are *far* too many "trainers" with a slick website and a lot of self-promotion that actually have no real experience in dog training. And these are not the people that you should be handing over your hard earned money to.
Also, if you're headed to a professional, ask him to show you the training on his dog - this is an excellent way to see what the instructor is capable of ( of course, you'll ask to make sure that the trainer actually trained the dog and didn't buy him already titled, right? ) and how he interacts with the dog. A instructor's dog should look sharp and willing and like a dog that you'd want to own.




Ok, to me these are warning signs that you're not probably not getting a good instructor:

They don't own a dog or have one as a demonstration dog.
They've never titled a dog in any legitimate dog sport.
They have the "APDT" or the "CPT" and other bogus pet training certifications plastered on their website ( but oddly..they have no titles... )
They have their "AKC Canine Good Citizenship Evaluator" number all over their site ( which doesn't require any training experience to get )
They'll always have the token "after a lifetime of dog ownership, trainer Joe Blow has turned that experience into...." ( well, the turned that "experience" into no titles, apparently... )
They have photo's of all the Football players and movie stars who have bought dogs from them ( so those type of owners are expert judges of dog training? Didn't think so.... )
Have their "Master Dog trainer" title boldly displayed ( ask them from where - if it was any place besides the Tom Rose School or Triple Crown Academy, then that title doesn't mean spit )
Make the claims like "has trained 8000 dogs in a 17 year period ( taken from an actual site ) Do the math - that's 470 dogs a year. That is a totally BS claim with no basis in reality, sorry.
Feels the need to note how many books that they've read on dog training ( if a trainer is so desperate to pad their claims that they're stuck telling you about the number of books that they've read about training, you and your dog are in trouble )
Have training or protection video's on their website that are just plain bad. If that's the best they can do and they're willing to put it on the internet for everyone to see, what are they going to do with *your* dog?


All this is just my opinion,but I've seen this stuff in real life soooo long that I'm getting hard to fool now.
And I don't want ya'll fooled either!
Please, you're entrusting your dog and your cash to these people, start using a critical eye and ask *questions* before you take the step!

 Quote:

For the Pet Smart type instructors, don't bother, the odds of them having a title or competing is slim-to-none.

I pretended to be intrested in applying as an instructor just to see what it takes and what their real requirements were, and all it takes for PetSmart is a 4hr video then a written test off the video, you need not have ever even owned a dog. You don't say anything and they don't ask. I should have investigated deeper and played the role further and taken a look to see if that 4hr video was a Leerburg or not, LOL!

Good work Chris - this pretty much explains why the Pet Smart dog training program is so bad. I would be interestedin hearing from people as to what they cover in their classes and what they teach in terms of corrections and how they approach dog aggression (dominace)

If anyone has been to their classes and knows anything let me know. Maybe food for an article :-)

I can only relate an incident that happened at our local Pet Smart 3 weeks ago. My daughter and I were in looking for parrot food when we noticed a lady with a young GSD dragging her everywhere. She struggled over to the leash/collar section and was approached by a lady with a large ribbon that read "Trainer". We moved closer to hear what was being said and the lady with the dog explained that her dog was out of control and barked and lunged at people and especially other dogs. The TRAINER told her to wait there and she would fix that problem. She returned with a spray bottle and the asked the lady to follow her so they could find another dog. They rounded the dog food aisle and the GSD lit up on another lady and her Golden. Trainer then sprayed the GSD in the face with the bottle and the dog turned on her!!! The owner quickly said she was very sorry and dragged the GSD out the door. Now the Golden was fired up too so the TRAINER said, "And a spray for you too!". At which the Golden's owner tolder her to stay away from her dog and left also. My daughter and I started laughing at which she got in my face and yelled, "They quit barking didn't they!" and stormed off.

I took my pup to Petco puppy kindergarten for the purpose of socialization (he was 5 months). It was pretty funny. The lady was about 50 and she got her first dog (a rescue shep x) 6 years earlier and went to petco for training. From there she decided to become a trainer. It was great for my dog because we had been doing Ed's puppy video and OB video all along so my dog already knew all the basics.

He was the only dog the was able to perform any of the commands routinely and properly (because I taught him). Consequently, she used him as the demo dog at every lesson and kept insisting on putting on a halter. I let her do it while she was demonstrating but kept taking it off when I had him.

I don't think the other people got much out of the class. There dogs learned very little and the owners seemed pretty confused. Particularly, when they asked questions and she was unable to answer.

The funniest part was when she taught us the ZEN calming method. She also brought her dog in and kept him behind an enclosure. He snarled at any puppy that got near him and she never gave a demo with him.

It was more like - look what a great trainer I am because my dog is staying in this puppy fence enclosure.

Oh yeah, I also expected that petco would have a room for this training as well. NOPE. They did it in the back corner of the store in tiny little space. What a joke!!

I have two GSD's, the male Jody is 5 and the female Kati is 3-1/2. They both have CDs. I don' bring them to Petsmart because you never know when you're going to meet some one else's uncontrollable dog in the next aisle.

After I took a year break from training at a large facilty I wanted to get back into training. I called a couple trainers in my area out of the phone book to see if I could do some assistance training (hoping they knew what they were doing and hoping to turn it into something more than just assisting)

Anyway.. one of the trainer I met at Petsmart and shadowed her on "teaching" her classes. The class was really strange with most of the time spent sitting at a table talking about the issues and not working the dogs. I asked her what she had to do to work with Petsmart and she said that you'd have to spend six months in traning with another senior trainer plus get "certified" with either APDT or a similar organization. And this was even after I demonstrated that I could already deal with a class and I had 2 years of trainig full time already!! I could not beleive it. I never went back and I've found my own way.

~Jamie

I witnessed a class with 4 dogs; Three GSDish dogs and a rottie type dog. The dogs seemed to be all dog aggressive. The trainer’s solution to this was to put up an x-pen across the training area to separate the dogs. GSDs on one side and rottie on other. The GSDs went over/through the “barrier” to attack the rottie. Two of the GSD owners were not even in the training area so it was left to the trainer and two owners to break up a 4 dog fight. Afterwards the trainer was upset because none of the other PetsMart employees came to help her. No physical damage was done. This is something that could have gone very very horribly wrong. I never enter a petsmart anymore with my dogs without pepper spray. Although, I do feel the need to use it on people more than dogs.

The store near me now has a boarding place with daycare. There is a play area that will have several dogs in it at once with one employee supervising. On a ledge in this room are an air horn and a can of that citronella dog repellent spray. I most sincerely hope this isn’t their only solution to dogfights.

I am the 'slim to none' Petsmart Trainer. I have titled a dog, with high scores, I feed raw, I don't go near dog parks, I don't let people or other dogs near mine, I don't think every dog is 'cute', and I USE prong collars on my own dogs. I can tell you, I am one of the few and I am the outcast.

I have read the postings here about Petsmart visits and laughed, yeah, I have seen it all.

My very first visit to a Petsmart was interesting. I had no idea Petsmart was in the business of training dogs. I went there to heel in air conditioning. I too, heard the trainer tell the class in 6 weeks you will be doing that....I noticed she was pointing at us. I bursted out laughing ....I had 1-2 point deductions on leash, never lost a point off leash....hardly something I trained in 6 weeks! Then the shark approached, she said something about my prong collar and told me if I really wanted to train a dog I should come to class. I just looked at her and said I trained with......do you think you are of value to me? Missy trainer retreated with her tail between her legs. For the next few years I never step foot in a Petsmart again, why would I shop in a place where I am being insulted?

I was bored and needed to find a fun part time job, the dog training gig sounded like 'fun' and after all I am not like that person who insulted me. I got hired, went though the training program and went to my store.

The program is a bit different than what I have trained or taught is the past. At times my experience is a burden, due to the fact.....during class I MUST only train and teach Petsmart "methods" ideals. The program has been revamped and the story is the trainers are being audited to ensure the program is followed. There are times when both myself and the students are extremely frustrated.....but there is nothing I can do in the classroom. I have been told several times you are holding back, I know you don't train your dogs like this, or screw the program and show us what you really know. It really breaks my heart at times. It's really hard when you are seeing failure and you can't change the method! I can say I have slipped up in class, when I do catch myself the students have always said keep in talking you make more sense when you just talk. The classes I have slipped in have all said they learn more from me when I slip than when I teach the program. I do think the trainers who have NO experience train this program much better than I ever can, they have true belief in the program. I do not share that belief nor do I think 'we are able to train anything here'.

Someone wondered about what we do about aggression. When I speak to someone who wants to enroll in a class, I really question them if they mention that word. I ask them to bring the dog in so I can see it before they enroll, I don't want a problem that I am unable to handle with the Petsmart methods. Normally the eh-eh word is used or the spray bottle. The scary thing is, the trainers are not trained in what to do in the worse case. We are shown a tape of how to spot an issue, but that is it. I know what to do, but if anything ever happens I don't think I can react in the proper manner and remain under corp policy.

Someone else wrote about pepper spray. Yeah, on my keychain, which I keep with me at all times, just in case....dogs and customers.

I really have no answer about the prong collar deal after all they do sell them. I have never seen blood squirting out of my dog's neck nor have I had to staple my dog's head back on. The only time approach a person with a prong collar is to fit it correctly, I would say about 98% of the customers who come in do not have properly fitted collars. I have seen the prong collar attack, by someone who has never used the product. Personally, I think if you have no hands on experience with a product you should keep your mouth shut.

Sometimes I feel that some of the employees cross the line with their own moral convictions. I have seen more than one checker pick up a prong or e-collar, handle it like it is haz-mat, make faces and say to the customer why are you buying this and go off on a rant. I don't know why the checkers feel they have a right to do this, no other stores I shop in do this. Good thing, think about if the grocery stores or worse yet Victoria Secrets did that!!!!

Petsmart does do a service to those who have never owned a dog before. We do spend tons of time with these people, going over concerns, and PRODUCTS, and giving them as much advice as possible. I always try to be as honest as I am allowed to be under corp rules. I weasle word the topics, I don't agree with. I stay away from the feed issue, I feed raw, I have had a problem with the feed I am suppose to push. I do not recommend or degrade any products I have never tried, had bad results with or just don't believe in. To me the best way to do the customer right is to be honest.

I have been told by many customers....you are normal or you are not like one of them....thank you, I try not to be!!

And I have been insulted by cusomers right to my face, because of the rumors about the training we endure.

I have seen Petsmart trained dogs in the store and in my sub-division, this type of training is just not up to my personal standards. It doesn't work for me at all, I judge trainers by titles and scores. But, the target consumer is not one who is interested in or even knows what a well trained dog is, most of these people are very happy with just getting a sit and being able to walk with a Gentle Leader, whatever. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Deb,
Thanks much for your input, it's nice to hear about it first hand.
And welcome to the forum! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />