When my dog runs at the decoy to bite, he doesn't run into the decoy full force like a crazy dog, it's almost like he runs, stops, then bites, but it's all so fast that I didn't even notice till the decoy said something about it. I noticed that when playing in the back yard with him, if I put him in a sit/stay, go to the other side of the yard and hold a tug in front of me with 2 hands, he does the same thing, he runs at me, almost stops, then bites n tugs, but if I hold the tug off to the side, he jumps at the tug, takes it n keeps going.

Is this something I should even care about? Is this a genetic intensity thing or is there something I might try from a training perspective to get him to slam into the sleeve?

On another note - those of you who gave me some advice on Out'ing my dog last week, I Out'ed my dog for the first time on Monday night, he didn't lose any intensity and his re-bites were awesome, I don't think I have to worry too much about my dog not wanting to bite because of the Out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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Are you moving backwards when you hold it in front of you??

No, but that explains alot doesn't it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'll tell the helper to move backwards when he comes in for a bite.

My club decoy beater Charlie always talks about work like a bank. You gotta put something in before you can take something out. If you don't have a strong dog, and you make it hard all the time, ie not moving, he eventually will make the right choice which is to stop and then bite.

If you are always creating a situation where the dog has to make an effort to get to the sleeve, he builds confidence especially if sad efforts are denied a reward. Frustration is your friend!

I wouldn't be so quick to rip the dog. There are too many variables in bitework to know what's wrong. I would check to see that your helper is doing everything right first, or try a new helper and re-evaluate. Because something similar happened to me, and it was as simple as the helper not presenting a good target for my dog. He would come running like a cheetah, then all of a sudden slowed down, noticing his target was at a different angle from what he was use to.

Not ripping the dog.

Again not ripping on the Dog, but Target position should not be an excuse.

If so the dog is to fixated on the equipment. I completly agree with Jeff. There is no need to constantly test the dog even on the courage test. Continue building the drive by having the decoy come on the dog and start to back up the last few seconds. You could turn and almost go into an escape bit situation to make sure the dog is going to come hard and fast. It's safer for the dog as well less chance of jamming him.

JMO

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If so the dog is to fixated on the equipment.

He's bitten on a hidden sleeve and looks good in civil agitation, but he does target the sleeve when one is presented. If you slip the sleeve he spits it out and tries to bite the decoy again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'll be training with Ted Hoppe on Monday so I'll see how my dog does on a bite suit and see what Ted can suggest based on watching my dog first hand. I think the decoy stepping back when the dog goes for the bite might keep up his speed, I'll go try it with a tug in the back yard shortly and see if I can figure something out the good ol' trial and error way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll see if we can put some of it to use.

Update: Just tried stepping back from him when he runs at me with the tug, holding the tug closer to me, he has a hard nose, it jabbed me in the stomach <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But taking a few steps backwards seems to be slowing him down less. I think he was having the "running into a brick wall" syndrome... if you're supposed to run at a brick wall - you'd slow down as u get near the wall too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks guys.

Your welcome, glad to see it helping. When you get that new suit, there is an exersize called face to flee. The decoy stands like a face attack,(not going forward) and when the dog starts to pullup, the decoy turns and hauls butt the other way. This worked well for my GSD, who 90% of the time when you describe your dog, or problems he is having, is my dog. The other 10% are like the fireworks, or frivolous stuff. The training is almost exact.

Mike

Does your dog bite full and hard, after he stops?
If he does, I wouldn't be overly concerned. He'll be ready for the French Ring Esquive, if you ever do French Ring.
The full bore, all out courage test looks good from the
sidelines but Your dog is less likely to miss the bite or
get injured?