I have an 8yr old Malinois who I began in protection training when he was about 8 mos old. He took to it instantly and had great drive for the sleeve, whip, etc. I have always intermittently kept up obedience training myself, but did not keep him on any consistent protection training schedule. I got him back into it when he was about four, back into formal obedience classes and private trainings with a man here in CA who trains police dogs for the Santa Cruz police dept. When HE met my dog, he praised him to no end, and I recall him telling me, "You dont have a dog here; you have a weapon." With him too, he would go wild for the protection training equipment. Here's the dilemma: when I took him back yesterday, I was shocked. (Now, I took him back because he failed to protect a close friend of mine who, a week ago, was walking him and was pushed into a car by a hooligan.) I was shocked because this same trainer this time called him a "pet" and said he'd never protect me if push came to shove. All this time I thought I had a Malinois with good protection instinct. One other piece of data: he has on a few occasions "nipped" at people; i.e. he only goes as far as grabbing their clothing. With men it seems to be in the crotch region. I cant figure out what is common between the nippings; one was a mover who suddenly came out of the bathroom, another was a child who was visibly afraid of him, another was a tall, large male friend of mine, when he walked into my home. He is not dominant over me; he is not dominant, period; in fact, the second trainer, in Santa Cruz, described him as a "solid beta." He barks like CRAZY in the car to anything around, in the house if he hears anyone near the house, or if God forbid anyone should come to the front door. Have I got a dog here who simply is a good deterrent, will bark to warn people, but who wont protect me when push does come to shove? Thank you.

It's possible that the dog has the genetics but lacks adequate training for personal protection work. He should have been doing muzzle type work and real world scenarios if that's what you want out of the dog.

A long time between 8 years, 4 years, and 8 months.

It sounds like he became a pet. Could it be that some of his drive was corrected out of him over the years?

I'm not a fan of expecting protection from a pet, without disciplined and routine training. Absent some kind of training, you are expecting the dog to go from pet to protector in an instant. I don't know... I do know, in the first instance I would be uncomfortable around such an 'unpredictable' dog.

I 'think' one of my GSDs would react to a threat if a friend was walking him or her but I wouldn't expect it. Wouldn't be surprised but wouldn't expect it.

The hooligan had to have some nerve to approach a person with a dog.

Just a few disjointed thoughts... No offense intended.

Mike A.

Thanks for the posts so far on this. The whole course of events - this whole week - has been so confusing, and I'm angry, disappointed, sad...so thank you for the support.

Picking up on something you've shared: what is the idea, then, after initial training when the dog is still a puppy, i.e. regular classes or private lessons - or your own work with the dog? I mean, I understand obedience training, that is easy enough to maintain, but how does one maintain protection skills? Thanks again.

No one can tell you why this dog did this - not from an email. There are too many possibilities.

With that said this trainer is iin need of addiitonal training himself. Not uncommon.

The fact is unless your training supports enviornmental stress tests you will never know how the dog will react.

This includes muzzle TESTING (the muzzle work can become a prey game is done too much) body suite testing (the body suit can easily become a big prey item)

Training needs to be done in differant locations with differant helpers. Obviously not this helper or trainer. TO go back is putting good money on top of bad money.

With that said - not many people really need a serious protection dog. Anyone who does this to a person with an adult dog is either nuts or has a weapon.

Tell you friend to carry pepper gass - the 10% model.

I train my dogs to walk the plank, and other strange challenges to their confidence in me. The idea is to get them to trust my commands without undue apprehension, and, of course, to respond to urgent commands immediately, confidently and with some level of enthusiasm.

That said, getting a GSD to climb a few step ladder steps, walk between saw-horses on 8" planks, and jump into an unsteady wheelbarrow, requires some repetition and exposure or training. I have discovered that on one day they will do the work without apprehension, confidently, and on another they might be a little reluctant.

If you want a dog to perform you must train, and retrain it to do so. Keep in mind that a house dog is trained to be a pet all the time. 'Come, sit, down, quiet, here, etc.' The pet is trained and conditioned to be more docile. If you want the pet to also demonstrate other traits, those must be trained, and retrained routinely and frequently, and reinforced. And, frankly, some dogs can't be trained to do some things - in my opinion.

I'm not sure I'd loan a pet trained in personal protection to a friend. In fact, I'm reasonably sure I wouldn't. The friend would probably have no clue how to manage the dog, and that is unfair to the dog.

Most of the training of the dog is the training of the trainer, in my opinion.

It sounds like you have a really great, well trained pet.

That is a good thing. Carry the pepper spray, and use it with the wind. As crazy as this may sound, before you use any chemical agent you should know how to use it. You could end up spraying yourself.

Max, Freya and Brio are letting the siding contractors next door know of their presence. And now they are down, quiet and just observing the repair work. They alerted to the presence of strangers, and now they are watching. Very comforting.

I must have way too much time on my hands.

Good luck.

Mike A.

Im a total newbie to this so correct me if I'm completely off, but this is what came to my mind. Perhaps the dog is either in pet mode or working mode, and can't without obvious clues (such as being in a training field) switch from one mode to the other automatically like you're assuming he could. If you haven't put him through enough protection training and there wasn't enough variance in terms of who he's protecting you from and where, to him it might just be a game which you play at a certain time at a certain place. I don't think dogs can generalize situations and transfer knowledge as easily as it seems logical to us. That requires a certain level of training.

Also, perhaps he didn't feel he needed to protect the person who was walking him as it wasn't you and chose to stay in pet mode which is what he's accustomed to doing with your friends?

As ED said there is no way to tell what exactly went wrong. there are a milllion and one pssibilities. here is another. the dog may have become equipment wise. the dog sees a sleeve, he knows he can bite. he don't see a sleeve he thinks it is time to heal and sit. to train a TURE PPD you need to do many different training senerios(sp?) in many different places, with many different decoys. Don't be upset that YOUR dog didnt protect another person. after all you were training to protect you. even in the military, after the handler moves to another base and is reasigned to another dog they do through a phase where all the do is play and build the trust in one another. If yo want a dog that will undoubtly protect you, you need to train oftain and not take 4 year breaks. think of it like this. if a pro boxer got into a ring and tried to fight a title fight after doing nothing for years, he would get creamed. a dog in protection work is no different. in order to keep his skills sharp he needs to train, train, train. dont be upset with the dog. if you want to be upset with anybody, be upset with the trainer who should have told you from the get go what you had rather then telling you that you had a "weapon" and then watching your weapon miss fire.

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the dog sees a sleeve, he knows he can bite. he don't see a sleeve he thinks it is time to heal and sit.

That's what I ment by work mode and pet mode :P

The "beta dog" comment interests me..... did the second trainer make that fact out to be a negative?? Sounds like you need to seek out a GOOD trainer. I'll be the first to admit the 96% of police k9 trainers don't know jack when it comes to actual dog training.