Hi All,

I have a qustion regarding the building drive and focus. My rescue dog initially had NO interest in balls/toys. Yet is liked greased lightening when it comes to chasing birds, squirrels, anthing ALIVE, that moves.

She has since learned to chase a ball. But, it seems its only when I take her to a particular ballfield, after we have walked and or jogged a bit. I'm not sure if she now associates this area with being able to chase the ball, but other times I cannot illicite that play behavior, unless we are in the field, after some exercise.

She came with a huge lack of confidence, but that is improving. I'm taking her to agility classes, mostly for the controlled exposure to other dogs and people. She now flys over some of the jumps, and obstacles that used to intimidate her, she now tackles with confidence.

Is is possible to increase her drive/focus, at this point in her life?? She is 4-5yrs old. Is the DVD specifically for PPD training??

I'm having fun working with her, and want to do everything I can to help her become her best.

Like I mentioned, she LOVES to chase little animals. When she does go for the ball, she really tackles it and likes to run around shaking it in her mouth. Occassionally, she will get really crazy and really zoom all around me....it really is fun to watch her come out of her shell, so to speak. Oh, also, to get her worked up, I will keep her leash on, hold it and talk excited to her and kind of rub the ball on her, it seems to get her excited, to be contained, and then let her loose to chase the ball....is that kind of like building her drive??

Regards,

Linda

Do you have the DVD yet? Or are you asking if it'd be suitable for you?

No it's not just for PPD training in my opinion, drive is a good thing for any dog to have and work with, it's much nicer for a dog to work in drive than to work because it has to work, the DVD explains some things specifically for PPD training and bite work but the general principal behind building drive is universal. I reccomend this DVD to anyone who wants to do obedience with their dog thru learning to play with their dog.

Also something to remember is that frustration builds drive.... the longer your dog has to wait for something the more drive it builds.... get your dog super excited for a toy, wait till they are at the PEAK of their excitement, then put them in the crate for a while n put the toy away, then do this again tomorrow, the next day, the next etc don't let the dog have the toy, let the dog get frustrated as hell for the toy! In a week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks, you'll see huge improvements in the dogs drive if the drive is there genetically. It's tough to do this consistently, I'll admit I have never been able to keep doing this for more than maybe 10 days, but when the dog is finally allowed to have the toy its super excited... n you don't just give the dog the toy and say "OK boy you can have it now, chew it to pieces"... keep playing with it, play tug, play fetch if the dog will bring it back to you, keep the toy interesting... dead prey is no fun.

Hey Mike,

No, I do not have the DVD at this point. I was not sure if it was appropriate for me, in this situation. I thought it was just for PPD.

I have noticed, that when I walk and or jog with my dog, I do so with the prong collar on, so she minds her "P's & Q's." I then attach her leash to her flat leather collar, before we play. It seems like, she is more excited, to cut loose and play, after she has been kept in line, while we are out, with the prong in place.

Actually, one afternoon, I forgot the ball, but just started to try to initiate any kind of playful interaction with her. She got into the play bow, would dig a little hole in the dirt, then kinda charge me, but duck to the side of me. She proceed to do this again and again. It was pretty cool, considering the fact that I don't think she was socialized and or was given much opportunity to play before I got her.

Thanks for your suggestions. I will give them a try!!

Linda

hi linda,
i don't know if this will help you or not (but i hope it will). i have an 8 yr old rescue Dobe that was evidently OB trained using bill koehler's methods (or something close to it).

he has virtually NO prey drive, he's handler-soft, but very sharp-nerved. soooo--we play. he LOVES to play "football", AKA "chase me 'til i catch you". we play in the house (have removed all obstacles so it's a pretty much straight run through with jumps over the cedar chest and the recliner's footstool)& outside.

the key with him has been to kind of casually say "come on", and he will perform a perfect in-front recall and sit. mark it with praise and more play--you can't make a big deal out of it until he's DONE it, or he starts acting like he'll get a "correction".

he knows what he's "supposed" to do, but has been trained with so much compulsion that if you try even a LITTLE bit, he sulls up and just won't perform. i have to watch not only my tone of voice, but my body language.

and this dog won't chase ANYTHING--i think he doesn't know what "prey" is. but, at his age (he WOULD be the exception to the rule <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />, his food drive is over the top.

hate to have to try to train the "food-refusal" in ASR--he'd take it and run!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Linda,
*None* of the Flinks videos are really for ppd training - they are primarily for SchH and/or Obedience training.
Bernhard's method of work is wonderful for the basis of bitework, but that doesn't mean it will work for all dogs - it requires about a level "5" of genetic drive to work, and many dogs lack that.

And just for the sake of illustration, *very* few people even understand ppd training, much less have ever done it, but that doesn't stop many posters from discussing it with authority on the forum ( that's not meant for any of the posters in this thread, I'm just seeing this become more and more of habit of some posters here )

The best way to get your dog working in a level of increased drive would be to attend a seminar of one the trainer that does that type of work - Bernhard Flinks and Mike Ellis would be the two best to seek out.

Will,

Thank you for the clarification. I happened to find this site on the net, when I first adopted my dog and was having some behavioral issues. I have found ALOT of valuable information. I have followed the principles in Ed's basic training DVD, and it has really help us both.

I do not participate in SchH with my dog, nor do I think she is a candidate....she is a Gr. Shep & Border Collie mix (we think) However, I would someday love to have a working dog and learn about SchH, tracking, obedience, and maybe something along the lines of S&R.

Right now I have plenty to work on with "Sam."

I did not know if the DVD, would be beneficial in helping her to continue to come out of her shell so to speak.

Thanks, again, for the great site and info.

Regards,

Linda

so, kind of on a tangent (but i think not really, as linda's dog is "good" as long as he/she has the prong on), and mine is as long as he's in "play", ie, no leash, what's a good strategy with these guys?

i can put a drag on mine, but what about linda? i'll be interested. BTW, (if i should start a new thread, tell me), i've had a drag on Goober, and he consistently acts like he's about to beaten. but probably i've not been consistent enough w/the drag either.

at any rate, i'm interested in linda's problem. i can post mine in the "rescue dogs" forum.

Ann,

I was basically wondering how I can build my dogs drive and or help her to become less inhibited and become more active in play.

What I meant was that, with the prong collar on, she is more focused on me, and it seems to build up to better play, when I disconnect her from the prong collar. She walks OK with out the prong, now. She used to lunge at other dogs, and on occassion at people. That was a while ago....when she was very "reactive" after leaving the shelter.

I almost always have the prong collar on...and I do work obedience in during our walks etc. With the prong on, I don't have to nag with my corrections, if they are necessary.

I'm interested in hearing about your dog also. Unfortunately, I'll have to check back tomorrow. I'm up at 4AM, and it is sack time for me.

Later,

Linda

A couple of things that worked for me...

Played ball by myself while puppy went around on a long line doing something else. Threw it around, caught it, looked like I was really having fun. Pup finally decided 'on his own' was boring and went to play with me.

Vancamp earlier suggested crating the dog for a couple of weeks doing nothing except play for a few minutes twice a day (no walks, no anything). A bit extreme, but this was absolutely what worked for my boy--it focused ALL his energy into playing ball/tug with me in the field, and once he realized how fun it was, I introduced him back to my life and this dog is now an absolute freak when it comes to playing ball or tug. Even if you don't want to do this, crate the dog at least a few hours before you train and make sure he hasn't done any rough activity before he was crated. I also usually feed a light meal (kibble) a couple of hours before training, this is so the dog has some energy to burn and isn't thinking about how empty his stomach is, and give the dog a few laps of water before we go out.

Another thing to remember is to watch your dog when you're playing. If he is showing very little interest, don't bother trying to 'frustrate' him...if he doesn't want the ball then there's no point. I go ahead and let my pup miss the bite only once or twice and then let him won and parade his win around, acting all proud and stuff. After he's gotten used to always winning, then I let him miss more and more, as long as he always knew it was 'possible' to get the toy and he just had to outmove/outsmart me.

Remember not to bore him. If he's not interested, don't bother, put him away, and try again. I used to roll the ball around for more than five minutes trying to get him interested in it--achieves nothing. Running around trying to get him to play tug when all he wants to do is sniff will only tire me out. He has to be doing something in order for the session to be a success and actually look like he's enjoying himself. Otherwise, put the toy away, put the dog away, and come back later on. No more than a minute or two a couple of times a day. That's it...the less there is, the better.