The dogs I admire most when out and about are those of dominant breeds that show almost indifference to other dogs. They aren't forever trying to squash or bully every dog they see and are relaxed, confident and happy.
My question is, aswell as careful socialising with reliable dogs, is there anyway to encourage a disinterest in other dogs? Too instinctive?
Obviously an openly threatening or agressive dog is a different matter altogether.
For example i recently met on 2 occasions two different Akitas. One of whom was a pain and kept rolling and mouthing any other dog whereas the other ignored other dogs and merely briefly pushed over a cocky standard poodle who wouldn't leave her alone before she moved on.
IS this simple dog to dog variation?

In my experience, and what I do to get what you are talking about, is I do not let my puppy play with other dogs and am always the best one to play with. By doing this, they don't really learn that dogs have value.

My problem is similar to the original poster in that my GSD loves, loves, loves dogs. The poster didn't state the age of his dog, nor did you Jeff so I would be curious what you say w/regard to undoing the damage I've done if my dog is 11 months old? He's quite obedient under distractions until another dog enters the picture. Am I too late to undo the damage?

When I brought him home at 8 weeks, I'd walk him every day to socialize him but I think I over did it! If you were a dog on a leash, I let you see my pup! Arrgggh! I now know that was stupid to say the least.

To undo it, I've been told: make me his center of attention w/treats, make him do obedience training in front of other dog, etc. Don't know what's the best approach. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I have found that by socializing my GSD pups with TONS of dogs their first year, I get what you want by the time they are around 2 years old. By 'socializing' I don't mean allowing a rousing game of chase with every dog, I mean they are around HUNDREDS of dogs by the time they are 2. So new dogs are NORMAL, not a threat, nothing to be concerned about. Additionally, I believe dogs read other dogs reactions and behaviors and threats/not threats ONLY if they have been around many dogs. Frankly, just having one dog look away from another dog can prevent a fight, rather than a stare down that may assure a fight. And if my pups know I won't put up with them starting a fight, and I darn well won't be encouraging, they would chose to look away or sniff the ground. ALL of that can happen in an instant, be quiet, and I may not even be aware that my dog just prevented another from over-reacting and lunging.

I believe dogs 'learn' to behave well around other dogs (and people) by being around tons of other dogs (and people) and learning from the other dogs (and people). If we prevent these interactions, particularly in the first year when they get SO EXCITED WITH NEW THINGS, we also prevent the normal learning that will help the dogs when they are adults.

I have found many of the BEST and calmest behaved adult dogs, around other dogs, are those that HAVE been around tons of other dogs. And they are CONFIDENT, secure, sure of themselves and their owners because new dogs coming and going in their lives is a normal event.

And I have found it very interesting that around 1 1/2 years old, both my GSD's started showing an amazing change and backing off on the JOY of seeing ANY new dog and instead becoming more discriminating. As in they either ignore new dogs or just give a quick sniff (if allowed) and only have the crazy joy for their few special doggy friends (mostly those they met as puppies). So, because I have raised them to be confident and unafraid they can calmly look around their world and other new dogs isn't nearly as much of an event as when they were puppies.

That makes a log of sense. Maybe I didn't make such a huge mistake in allowing interaction on such a frequent basis. Thanks Jenn - I feel better now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> !

My dog wants to kill my helpers male GSD, I blame it on a combination of having watched that dog bite his daddy before I had a proper crate for him to not watch what we're doing when he's put up(may be way off here, but it might have something to do with it), and having had unsuitable interaction with male dogs when he was a puppy, a friends doberman who used to pick on him and drive him crazy. I since hadn't let my pup play with any dogs and worked with alotta corrections and training to get him to not bark at other dogs or run over to em, and he can even play fetch off leash with my helpers male GSD on the same field --- but they can't chase the same ball or even let Cujo chase his own ball in the same direction that my helpers GSD is running -- they can be around eachother at 1ft apart without a problem, but as soon as my dog sniffs at the GSD or interact, my dog flips out. 6 months ago my dog didn't have very violent reactions to the GSD, it was only after we'd started doing bitework together that this started escalating, but he's always barked at dogs out the window since he was a puppy.

The pup I'm getting is a female, not because I specifically wanted a female, I would have liked another male -- but because my dog loves female dogs, absolutely fine with them, tail wagging happy whenever a girl is around, so the odds of them getting along are much higher.

I'm not seeking advice... I'm just relating my experiences as to the potential result you can have from inappropriate interactions with your dog and other dogs. My next puppy will be allowed to be near other dogs, but never close enough for anything negative to happen. No off leash dogs running up to sniff her, no playing with other dogs etc etc etc. The risk far outweighs the benefit to me.

 Quote:

a friends doberman who used to pick on him and drive him crazy.

When I say I socialize the heck out of my young pups and have them around tons of other dogs, it is pretty much always in a positive (or neutral) manner. Think having a young dog get picked on too much so it ends up fearful and wanting to make sure it attacks BEFORE attacked does show how you can other problems. I want my dogs to LOOK at other dogs and being able to gauge them from what they see, not just REACT because they want to get the first bite in (or scare the other dog off).

I'm always near when other dogs are around, so I make sure the meetings are not threatening and appropriate. And if I'm not sure of the other dog, we just don't go too near. I have found that if the vast majority of dog (or people) meetings are neutral or positive for my pups during the first year or so (and it's my JOB and responsibility to make it this way) the very few 'scary' dogs we do meet that may lunge or may not be socialized and snap by over reacting to something, MY dogs take it in stride. Meaning they are specifically able to know that it is THAT Malinois they need to avoid, or THAT Border Collie. Not all dogs, or all black and white dogs.

Get this:

I'm walking my 14 month old Akita onlead in town last Saturday -- While we're waiting at a stoplight (my bitch is sitting at heel) suddenly all HELL breaks loose at my back !!!

Some stupid woman had come out of nowhere, with a GSD bitch wearing a cloth/velcro muzzle & nylon snap-collar, then she
"rear-ended" me, and allowed her fear-biter to launch on my Akita (who had been minding her own business) -- By a miracle of acrobatic maneuvering & force of will, I just barely managed to prevent an ugly engagement between our two females...

BUT, now my bitch's attitude toward other dogs we pass on walks has changed overnight from Friendly Puppy all the way over to, "Do you feel lucky? Well, DOOYA, Punk?" <:-(

 Quote:

BUT, now my bitch's attitude toward other dogs we pass on walks has changed overnight from Friendly Puppy all the way over to, "Do you feel lucky? Well, DOOYA, Punk?"

Don't know whether that is now an Akita thing, or your dogs genetic personality, or what, causing your dog to now mistrust ALL dogs.

When my dog's do occasionally meet a wacko dog like the GSD you ran into ( and, (let's be honest) the 'real world' will provide meetings like this ) they just start backing into me going 'WHOA WHOA WHOA' and we exit stage left. I do not yell, scream or deal with the other dog/owner at that time (or maybe ever if they are fast). What I care about is getting my dog away, quick survey for injury, and then CONTINUING the walk/trip like it was a normal day. Same as if we are on the sidewalk and suddenly the passing police car runs their siren, or bus backfires, or skateboard whizzes right past us on the sidewalk. MY responsiblity is to MY dog to make sure they remain mentally stable and recover fast. Both my GSD's have alot of toy drive and if I brought one of their toys on the walk, or can quickly find an empty plastic bottle, a quick short bout of obedience followed a rousing game of tug usually makes all the world go right for them.

I have found that MY reactions and attitudes are vital at these times. If I start yelling and screaming at the attacking dog/owner, (not normal behavior for me) than my dogs are MUCH more upset and distraught by the incident, more maybe than from the initial startle the other dog gave them. Instead of being something that happened fast and was over fast and now we are away, I am now staying near the scary dog, at the same scary location, and acting REALLY weird, with now a usually upset other dog owner.

It's not about being right, my dog was well behaved and sitting there and your dog attacked it. It's about me keeping a well socialized and even mannered dog in public. Me PREPARING all my dogs prior to any event such as mentioned by the muzzled GSD, as well as me 'having a plan' so I act fast and appropriately to help the situation, rather than make it worse for my dogs. Quickly getting away, distractions, immediately acting normal and like nothing happened, all has worked for me.

And my dog's have all been lunged at. All had short scary meetings with unsocialized dogs that should NOT have been in public. And all STILL can be taken any and everywhere. Good genetics followed by good socialization and training have made all the difference for our situation.

Thank you everyone for your replies. Very interesting to read.
I agree with the overload of dogs early in life to develop good 'manners', confidence and the ability to read other dogs. The risk of a nasty experience ruining the hard work worries me as it happens too often.
Has anyone here used the "puppy kindergarden" set up for socialising?
What you wrote, Jenn, on your dogs and socialising experiences is very encouraging. Keeping calm and in control all the time. And that despie bad episodes your dogs and still chilled out!
I don't currently own a dominant breed but will do eventually. And am very keen its easy to have around other dogs.
My Lab also showed a marked decrease in her interest of other dogs around the age of 2 but thanks to a scary experience with an agressive on-leash boxer she distrusts dogs on leash especially if they stare.