I lost respect for Cesar Milan tonight.

Cindy and I watched the session that showed on March 17th 2006 with Spike the black GSD that was aggressive to cats.

Cesar used an electric collar on Spike. Which in my opinion, was the right thing to do.

BUT AT NO TIME DID THEY TELL YOU HE WAS USING ELECTRIC ON SPIKE!!!!!!!!!! In fact he hid the fact that this is what he was doing with the dog.

How stupid. It is a crock of shit.

What got our attention was the fact that he used too high of a stimulation and sent the dog into serious avoidance and it bit him. We had to rewind Tivo to see that there was a transmitter hidden in his hand and the black collar one on the black Shepard.

I lost a lot of respect for him tonight. Who are you helping when you cover things up and don’t tell the truth. Sorry this is just a scam.

He should have explained that he was using a remote collar; he should have explained that he went to high on the stimulation.


I have had some issues with past shows. I thought he should have explained more about what he was doing and I blamed it on the editors. I can't do that here because he was hidding the transmitter from the camera.


SHAME ON YOU CESAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As much as I've enjoyed watching the show, it's always been pretty obvious that no one can take a strange dog and walk and talk it into a complete turn around like his program wants people to believe. I'ts obvious to anyone who has an understanding of dogs that more has to be going on behind the scenes than Cesar's TV furkid fans are shown. More than once, he's show wrestling with a dog, then the next scene the dog is laying on it's side with it's tongue hanging out. A good long walk? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I think not! I'll still watch it for the same reason I always have. It's got dogs in it, and it fun to second guess what's REALLLY going on before the editing is done. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

What channel and time does this show come on?

I didn't see this show. I can see the rationale behind hiding the fact he was using an e-collar. I don't think the majority of JQP could handle the idea of e-collars. Lots of people already think his methods are extreme and border on abuse, and he doesn't show the half of it. The animal rights activists could have a field day with e-collars being openly showed. That would mean bad PR for his show, for his methods, and the ratings would suffer because his following would think he was abusive. Other problems could be people going out and buying e-collars, with little knowledge on their proper use combined with people who aren't naturally adept at timing a correction.

Most of the public have not dealt with a dog with issues, so they wouldn't be able to relate or understand what types of corrections are necessary with some dogs. I'll use me for an example; I've seen dogs handled with a strong hand since I was little. I never liked it nor understood it. I grew up and still didn't like it. Then I got a dog with some serious issues, and after trying all the nicey nice ways, saw the dog take those nice methods as a weakness in me. Had I not experienced this dog, I doubt I would understand or approve of methods using e-collars or prong collars. Looking back on things I've seen, everything is clear. But, unless you've seen that you might not understand, ex. the majority of his viewers.

Sometimes if people haven't experienced behavioral problems in a dog, or a strong willed dog, they won't understand 'harsh' methods of correction. Heck there are some people who have dogs with behavioral issues that still couldn't justify using a method like that. I think dog people have to be careful with what they allow regular people with little knowledge of to see. Look at some other countries. They've banned e-collars and prong collars. It could happen here if we're not careful. I think the choice to hide the e-collar might have been wise. E-collars are just more information than a large portion of the viewers could handle IMO.

Monday nights. National Geographic channel. It's about 6-7 in the evening. I can't give a more certain time cause I'm retired and don't give a rat's a$$ about time anymore. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Good post Barbara. I don't think Cesar is a bad trainer, but it was not credible for him to teach the public through deception. Kind of reminds me of the various horse training shows I watch. Though some trainers are very good with their horses, their weakness lies in their ability to bridge that knowledge to the viewing public. This is why Clinton Anderson in "Horsemanship Downunder", who does well at both , is in my opinion a more worthwile watch.

Since I am not a professional trainer, I find it helpful to tap into good, reliable sources of information relating to dog handling and training. I do this because I personally would like to improve the relationship our dog(s) with familty and others and with somewhat of a desire to be a responsible owner in the community. This site, obviously, has been a great source for many years. And I have also picked up some helpful tips from Cesar's shows. Being the skeptic I am, tho, I never once thought the training/correction process could ever be as easy as it appears in the typical short, edited episodes presented on a TV show. (And this portrayal is probably more offensive to the real trainers out there!) In that sense, it is no different than many other TV shows. I'm a little disappointed - but not surprised - to learn of the e-collar situation.

In spite of the editing and production of the show which creates the distortions, omissions, misrepresentations or whatever you might consider them to be, I still see tremendous value in the recurring theme of responsible ownership and that the problem with these dogs and many others with similar behavior is often the fault of the owners. In many cases on the show, the owners are shown to be clueless and some are downright idiots (e.g. in one recent annoying edisode, a father almost jokingly talked about his son being bitten on the lip by the family dog, saying there was blood all over, yada, yada.)

I'd like to think the light will go on for some owners and they'll seek out professional training or further help for their out of control pets. While it's far from perfect, at least the show is a good argument against the BSL crowd.

I, too have been dissapointed with the show for some correction issues and Cesar not telling people they should not simi-alpha roll their dogs. I had a recent client come to me with their newly adopted cocker spaniel. He started cornering the male owner in the kitchen and biting him for moving. They had watched an episode where Cesar wrestles a dog down on it's side for a correction. So this is what my client did, and could have been seriously injured as a result.

I know that the show has disclaimer but Cesar shows this tecnique all the time and the public is going to try this stuff, espeicially when Cesar doesn't really go into any detail about what he's accomplishing.


Ed's Comments edited into this post:

Jamie I agree with you 100% - showing these alpha rolls is dangerous path. It is one thing for Cesar Milan to do them, he is very capable, Its entirely another thing to give the impression that pet owners can do this.

The fact is what Cesar does is what needs to be done - it just needs more of an explaination than a DISCLAIMER saying "DONT TRY THIS AT HOME"

Ed, The real question is What were you doing in the house watching TV on St Patrick's when you should have been having a couple of pints of Guiness!!!??

I've never seen the show but we have similar shows here. "It's me or the dog" and "Dog Borstal".

While they are entertaining (in a funny sort of way) they do not go into enough detail as to what they are doing. And don't tell me Victoria Stillwell can "retrain" a white shepherd with "agression problems" (the white shepherd in question was not really agressive in my view, she should come to my house if she want's to see an agressive, protective/defensive & potentially fearbiting shepherd!) with a couple of visits a week, and, dumbass owners who could barely tie shoelaces, let alone continue the training she had put in place.

How long does it take to film these episodes? It's giving people a false sense of what dog training is and also making the problem of "wild dogs" worse cause the owners think they can replicate what they see on TV in a couple of days.

John

The one and only time I saw Cesar's show it played three
episodes after another. I remember telling my wife, "wow!
these people are making the same mistakes I'm ALMOST making!"

This is just about the same timeframe that I found Ed's
website, and began reading the many training articles.
I WASN'T a member on this forum YET at that time, however.

But, when they got to the last episode, I was let down.
There was a Standard Poodle that would go balistic when it
saw passing cars. It would go into a "death-spin!"

Cesar took the dog, and commanded its focus by the use of
a prong collar BEFORE it showed attention to cars passing.

So far, so good right? The thing was though, he NEVER explained
the use of the prong, nor the fact that that dog HAD it ON!

I only realized the prong was the deciding factor for the dog
because I READ ITS USE on Ed's training article pages!

The impression I got was, "Hey, look what Cesar can do!"
and not, "Now I know that the use of a prong..."