I just read a correspondence from a man in Europe. He was walking his 4.5 mo PB pup with his wife and 18 mo. old daughter. A woman described as small was walking her bull mastiff on the other side of the road. When the mastiff saw the pup he charged the family while dragging his owner like a doll behind him. The father scooped up the puppy and ran to throw it in the bed of a parked pick up truck, when the mastiff realized the puppy was no longer reachable he redirected to the mans wife and 18 mo old daughter. The woman jumped up ona small compact car with the baby while the father tried to get the mastiff to rush him unsuccessfully. The mastiff jumped up on the compact and grabbed the woman by the leg dragging her to the ground and shaking, the child was dropped from the car....the whole time the owner of the mastiff in toe and screaming. The man grabs his daughter hands to the mastiff owner and takes the leash of the mastiff. He beats and punches and kicks the dog to get him to turn his wife loose unsuccessfully, he then garnishes a hunting knife and proceeds to stab the dog 7 times before he releases his wife and turns on him, the dog is stabbed two more times before he ends his attack.

My question to all of you was what could have been done by the family once the dog charged to avoid what happened..other than the mastiff should have been trained and handled by someone who could control him? Should the puppy have remained the target? I have thought about this and quite frankly I'm not sure what other options one would have...other than a gun. Incidently the man was sited for overly aggresive behaviour and ticketed for carrying the hunting knife. The baby took some scratches to the face and the gentlemans wife took 39 stitches to her leg. The mastiff did not survive his injuries and the gentleman that stabbed the dog is riddled with guilt over that. I think of myself in a situation like this...what else could you do??? I don't carry a weapon, maybe I should.

OMG, what a terrible story. Valerie, I used to carry pepper spray but added a small knife to the arsenal (with hesitation). I added the knife mostly because of the type of stories I see on the this board and because I hike where there are bears...I know, I know...if a bear ever did attack me the knife would be useless but it makes me feel better carrying something.

Luckily I've never had to use it but in the back of my mind I always think about the chance of a dog attacking me and my dog and if I used the knife, what litigation would follow me.

The only time a dog went after my dog (GSD) was when mine was a puppy. It was a loose JRT. I kicked the dog in the head and it ran but if that was a Rott, forget it. My kicks would have been useless.

I just bought a walking stick for this exact reason but given your story, a stick would have been no better on a dog that can take 7 and 8 stabbings and keep coming.

Questionable police officers in the line of duty, who are overly aggressive and worse are initially defended using the line, "officers have to make split second decisions...etc.,etc.". Well the same should hold true for law abiding citizens, minding their own business when they are threatened by a menacing, killing machine (mastiff)!!! How could he be cited for overly aggressive force when the dog kept coming after being stabbed repeatedly??

I don't think this man ever expected this dog to be as vicious and psychotically determined as it was. His split second decision to hide his pup was just that a split second decision. When that wasn't enough, it seems like he made several other split second decisions. Judging from your story, I would guess that if he stabbed the dog once and the dog ran away, the man would have left the dog alone at that point.

I'm no dog behaviorist but I don't think there was much this man could have done differently but I too would love to hear everyone's opinion.

Don't they sell break sticks for mastiff's and pitbulls to force them to release a bite? Perhaps he should invest in one of those.

It's always sad to hear when stuff like this happens, especially at the potential risk to a baby.

"Incidently the man was sited for overly aggresive behaviour and ticketed for carrying the hunting knife"


Don't ya just love the European mentality ( copied by a few of the lamer States here in America ) that criminalize the right to defend yourself or your property? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

When the basic human right of self-defense is denied to you by the State, you need to move - or start a revolution.

What a horrendous story! I used to carry a small knife in my pocket when loose dogs were really bad in my area. I didn't realize I could have gotten in trouble, but my guess is that I live in one of those lame states <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I don't know if I could have actually stabbed a dog anyway. Later on I started carrying a hand carved oak stick that doubled as a break stick and a wacking stick. One of my plans was to shove the stick part down a dogs throat if I needed to. I don't know if it would have worked...

I had one situation where 4 or 5 scary dogs were advancing toward us from a yard. I was planning on jumping a fence with my dog into someones yard. The owner of the dogs ended up calling them before they even left their yard so we didn't have to but it was scary!! I have no idea if their intentions were bad but I wasn't sure what to do. There was a small car close but I figured the dogs could jump up. It was after that incident that I started carrying that stick because I had nothing on me and couldn't have done anything if they had attacked <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

What the owner of the mastiff should have done is lasso a slip knot around her dogs neck and then yanked back as hard as she could till she yanked the dog off his feet or tackled him to the ground and held him there. If you have a dog like that you better be prepared to take a bite from it if it means you or someone else. JMO.

Laws in Europe are screwy. If your dog defends you in England it will probably get put down. I've seen a few dogs on death row over there for rightfully defending their owners. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Mike, a breaking stick is usually used to break up a fight between 2 dogs who are intensely focused on each other in fight. It sounds like this mastiff did quite a bit of transferring, so a breaking stick probably would've been pretty hard to slide in. It's much easier (in my experience)when you have two dogs so intent on killing each other that they're not paying any attention to you at all. Then, you just slide that fancy stick in the gap between their teeth and pry. I don't think I'd try that on this dog.

I'm with Will on the revolution; that is absolutely ridiculous. How much proof do they need that the man was entirely justified? The woman should be cited for having a loaded weapon she was unable to control.

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Laws in Europe are screwy. If your dog defends you in England it will probably get put down. I've seen a few dogs on death row over there for rightfully defending their owners. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I lived in England for about 5 years, no offense to the british folks on this board, but never again!! LOL. I had a neighbor who pushed an intruder down the stairs in his own home, the intruder broke his arm in the fall, the neighbor was held liable for it!!

As for the break stick -- I've never used one, just heard they were intended for releasing a pitbull's grip on something. Other than sacrificing a puppy's life, I don't think there woulda been an alternative to the way things went, he's lucky he had a knife as it was! I think he made the right choice, but it was pure luck that made it the right choice.... I think some stitches in your wife's leg leaves less guilt issues than throwing your puppy to his death, however, I do realize it could have gone much differently... but it didn't, so given the circumstances and the end result, he did the right thing. Yes a child is absolutely more important than a puppy, but in this instance, it was the wife's leg that took the damage, and both the innocent child and the innocent puppy were safe. There's no point in looking back at it thinking "why didn't I throw the puppy at the dog to save my child"... because what's happened has happened, it ended the way it did, and it probably ended in the best way possible from a psychological standpoint because the only death involved with (unfortunately) the poor dog who was killed by his owner, it's not the stabbing that killed that dog, it's the stupidity and irresponsibility.

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The mastiff jumped up on the compact and grabbed the woman by the leg dragging her to the ground and shaking, the child was dropped from the car....the whole time the owner of the mastiff in toe and screaming. The man grabs his daughter hands to the mastiff owner and takes the leash of the mastiff. He beats and punches and kicks the dog to get him to turn his wife loose unsuccessfully, he then garnishes a hunting knife and proceeds to stab the dog 7 times before he releases his wife and turns on him, the dog is stabbed two more times before he ends his attack.

The dog didn't want to release. A breaking stick would have worked to get the dog to release.

With a pitbull of their own, it would be a good idea to carry one in the future. That is, if they ever feel like walking in public again after that incident <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I meant that the dog was at first interested in the puppy, then transferred interest/aggression toward the woman, and he did eventually turn on the man. A breaking stick isn't going to hold the dog for long; it's just going to make it release. This particular dog was totally out of control. 2 dogs in a fight with each other are *generally* not going to turn their aggression on the humans who break it up, unless they have some loose screws. I think he still would've had to stab the dog, although none of us will ever know if we are even hearing an accurate rendition of the facts. I agree that they should have a breaking stick JIC, since they have a pit; I had one when I fostered several pits at one time. I was taught how to use one effectively, but thankfully never had to.