Hi All,

I've just been told by a Vet that feeding raw can cause more problems than it fixes, particularly if your dog has HD (mild or otherwise).

Can anyone shed any light on this if it's true or not? He said it was to do with the level of protien in the diet that speeds up the degenerative process.

Worried

John

Not true in my experience. In fact, likley the opposite. When I first switched to raw years ago, I had a rough collie that had dislocated her hip. (was put back in place) She has started to slow down due to some arthritic changes etc. When I switched her to raw, it was like she was a puppy again. I was actually quite shocked at the difference in her. She lived to 13 1/2. She also had spondylosis all through her spine but never complained. Was never on pain meds.

According to Billinghurst feeding raw can actually prevent problems/HD etc. I know there was another book out of Germany that said the same thing.

Thanks for the reply.

I've been doubting myself on all sorts of things lately (even though I read the Billinghurst material etc.).

This is my first dog and just feel as though I've let him down in some way.

John

Don't get discouraged. It is normal and easy to second guess ourselves, espeically when we get 'professionals' telling us things. The fact is that veternarians get LITTLE training on animal nutrition in their studies to become a vet. What they do get is often given/presented by large dog food companies. (have several freinds who are vets and one that is in school to become a vet).

I think most vets believe what they tell you is 'truth' but often it is out of ignorance.

How old is your dog? Did you do x-rays to determine HD?

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Don't get discouraged. It is normal and easy to second guess ourselves, espeically when we get 'professionals' telling us things. The fact is that veternarians get LITTLE training on animal nutrition in their studies to become a vet. What they do get is often given/presented by large dog food companies. (have several freinds who are vets and one that is in school to become a vet). ......I think most vets believe what they tell you is 'truth' but often it is out of ignorance. ....How old is your dog? Did you do x-rays to determine HD?

I absolutely second that assessment. Sometimes it takes a vet a long times to realize how much s/he wasn't taught about nutrition (and allergies, too), and sometimes, sadly, s/he never does.

I'll third that. Vets, sadly, are not taught much about nutrition, at least not from unbiased sources <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. The protein thing is pretty much a myth. Environment plays a huge role in HD, and irregular growth periods are more likely (from what I've read) to occur with kibble. An interesting read is Dr.Pitcairn's section on HD. If you're worried about it, read up on Vitamin C and HD-fascinating stuff!

My regular vet is apalled by the idea but the ortho vet - he had two main concerns / I still think it is basically good if you do your research but I don't see it as the magical cure all I once did:

--- control of calcium levels if you are not watching the meat:bone ratios properly - and -

----- the use of excessive Ester-C in puppies since it is bound up in calcium.

Cyra WAS properly fed a raw diet until 2.5 years old and is still severly dysplastic. She was not jumped or overworked until she was over 18 months. She had good parents. Good musculature. Sometimes despite stacking the deck you STILL wind up with a dysplastic dog.

We are not feeding raw now mainly due to the fact that my other allergy prone / perianal fistula dog really can't tolerate the chicken (and other raw foods start adding up), tends to develop bacterial overgrowth and a host of other issues -- and -- because it is a hassle when I go places with the dogs which we do a lot.

The Ester-C thing is debated, but it seems like more are in favor of it than not, and there are studies to support it (see Wendell Belfield's <sp?> study). Ratios have to be correct, of course, so don't leave out bones! Chicken backs and necks are good for providing the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio. There are tons of pages on this stuff if you do a search for either vitamin C or HD. Not all vitamin C is the same. Check out the differences between ascorbic acid and ester C.

I third or fourth the vets and animal nutrition thing. I'm heading to vet school in 2007, but I have done diet studies on the "premium" rodent chows made by Purina and Harlan Teklad during my time as a graduate student in biology. Ugh, junk food...their dog foods are no better at all. I'm personally not opposed to canids eating some vegetable materials, but seriously, dogs are house wolves. Wolves do not eat soy, wheat, or corn. Ugh.

Tell you what. I agree that vets don't know much about nutrition BUT one issue I have with RAW only folks is that it becomes a religion. Any feeding regime should be looked at objectively for results.

Up front -- I am NOT debunking RAW! I am saying be objective. I know it works for a lot of people but it is not some miraculous food that will cure all dogs of all ailments either.

I have a male dog with perianal fistulas who was raw fed for many years and chock full of allergies. He is now on Purina ONE sensitive systems (yes with CORN in it - yes Purina ONE) and healthier than he has ever been. I know other working dogs who THRIVE on Beneful.

I have a female dog who was raised on raw and has severe HD.

In both cases their diets were carefully researched and moderated.

Now this is ANECDOTAL evidence on a population of 2 so there is no statistical validity to my findings. I am NOT debunking raw. I am saying I observed my own dogs and decided to go back to a prepared food and that particular food worked for me and has done so now for 6 months. My training IS as a scientist (MS Chemistry) and tells me to objectively observe the facts.

As a future vet I hope you take with you that level of objectivity. We will have to live with anecdotal stories (and, yes, there are many in support of a raw diet) until a valid study is done and I don't see that being funded.

Don't tell me their life will be shortened my last two dogs (GSD and ESS) lived to be 15 and 14 respectively without debilitating disease and were fed Nutro the majority of their lives.