 Black Sable GSD Pup
#102703 - 03/31/2006 12:16 PM |
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I recently purchased a black sable GSD pup, and was wondering if anyone out there has pictures of their TRUE black sable GSD as he/she grew and the color developed. This is my first sable (have always owned very melanistic blk/tans) and I'd like to compare him to get an idea of how dark he will be. My breeder told me that he looks very much like his father (Hence the name "Carbon"), however I know the mother's coloring will play a factor in his overall look. Thank you! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Sarah & "Carbon"
Carbon Copy v. Borus (BD 1-24-06) |
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Re: Black Sable GSD Pup
[Re: SarahRHall ]
#102704 - 04/01/2006 12:02 AM |
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For you to have a true black sable pup, the mother must be a black, or have a black recessive. (I'm assuming the father was a black sable, who passed the sable gene to the pup). In a past breeding my black sable male was bred to a melanistic blk/tan female. There was no black sable pups produced...
The sables were rather light colored...
...and the black gene of the father was passed to produce very melanistic blk/tans...
If you do have a true black sable pup, it would have been born very dark, then lighten before 8 weeks, darken, and lighten some again before six months. Then gradually through the years darken some more. The coat will vary through the seasons some, if you live in a climate where it's necessary to shed through the temperature changes.
Some pictoral examples can be seen at this link...
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Re: Black Sable GSD Pup
[Re: Daryl Ehret ]
#102705 - 04/01/2006 12:10 AM |
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Here's a 5 month old True black sable... not necessarily "dark" sable, but "black" sable because it carries a black recessive gene.
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Re: Black Sable GSD Pup
[Re: Daryl Ehret ]
#102706 - 04/01/2006 12:35 AM |
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A "black sable" has to have one black parent, huh? That's news to me.
It's been my understanding for a long time now, that "black sable" is just a cute descriptive term for a dog that is dark sable, black sable, has very dark pigment, etc.
It would be a pretty interesting thing to start naming colors after the parent's color, or the color genes they carry.
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Re: Black Sable GSD Pup
[Re: Robert VanCamp ]
#102707 - 04/01/2006 01:09 AM |
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Last looks like a red sable to me, not a black. Molly's dog Eagle is a black sable. Basically the undercoat is more black versus a red sable is more tan/red underneath, then of course the shades in between. My female Diesel is a lighter red sable, her brother Drago a very dark red sable. Now you do have to have sable to get sable, but black recessive? nope. I had a black sable a few years ago, Joschy. Guess what, if he had a black parent he would've been black recessive. He was black/tan recessive. I've seen other black sables that are bicolor recessive as well. Malcolm Willis book of genetics is pretty good. Has a whole piece on color genetics and inheritance.
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Re: Black Sable GSD Pup
[Re: Robert VanCamp ]
#102708 - 04/01/2006 01:18 AM |
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be a black, or have a black recessive
If black sable, dark sable, and dark pigment all mean the same, then I guess there's no need for any confusion, huh? A dog is "just a dog" after all...
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Re: Black Sable GSD Pup
[Re: Angela Washburn ]
#102709 - 04/01/2006 01:53 AM |
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Molly's dog Eagle is known for producing "dark pigment - dark and black sables with red undercoat" yet carries a black recessive. The last pic above is out of a sable father and black mother, the father carries a black recessive, and yes there is some melanistic red.
Basically, I choose to call a "dark" sable a dark sable, and a sable with a recessive black gene a black sable (whether dark in shade or not). Nobody needs to agree with this, it's just how I differentiate (usually to my self, without much argument) It's a little easier than saying my-black-sable-who-does'nt-hava-a-recessive-black-gene.
The bicolor is not actually determined in the agouti locus of the chromosome, it's more likely melanistic, not a dominant/recessive trait at all. My "black sable" male has the arm bars, tar heels, toe penciling.
I've read Malcom Willis' book and it could use a revision.
AND I apologize for any rudeness, but you know how Robert rubs everybody .
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Re: Black Sable GSD Pup
[Re: Daryl Ehret ]
#102710 - 04/01/2006 07:35 AM |
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Daryl,
As per the rules of the forum, you may only post photos of your own dog and yourself in the "members Bio" section of the forum.
I've deleted the photos that you posted ( if you want to use photos in a section other than the "Members Bio" section, use links ), please review the rules for posting.
Will Rambeau
Moderator
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Re: Black Sable GSD Pup
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#102711 - 04/01/2006 08:32 AM |
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Re: Black Sable GSD Pup
[Re: Daryl Ehret ]
#102712 - 04/01/2006 11:04 AM |
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Hi Daryl,
I read somewhere that the black on the toes is indicative of carrying the black gene; is this what you meant by "penciling"? For example, Caleb's nephew on his sire's side is a black sable (I think <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />  and he looks like someone took a paintbrush and painted a stripe on all his toes. I know it's entirely possible for him to have this gene, as his uncle (sire) and first cousin (dam) is solid black. Here are 2 pics-neither are totally accurate as far as coloring, but here's his face and one where you can see the whole dog. What's the liklihood of producing solid blacks from him if bred to a solid black, another black sable, etc.
Black recessive?
Dark or Black?
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