We are considering getting a toy poodle because they are so smart as well as small enough to take with you easily etc.

In terms of training and temperament, I would love to hear comments and suggestions as to your opinion on this breed.

Also, we looked at one a few days ago and she was a 9 week old puppy...when we put her down she would sometimes run over a few feet and look under the table and bark a little bit....is this a sign of potential mindless yapping or is it normal for a 9 week old puppy to do?

Any advice on Toy Poodles would be great. Thanks in advance!

With Toy Poodles (as really with any breed) you must be VERY careful about the selection process. First, DO NOT buy from Just Puppies, etc (PET STORES). These dogs are almost always from backyard breeders and puppy mills. Also, many of these pups are sick, or have some sort of abnormality that prevents them from being sold privately. Find a reputable breeder, with references, in your area. Then pop over for an inspection of their facility. Are they offering 4 or 5 different litters to choose from? Are their dogs in good health? Do the parents have at least a 5 generation pedigree? Are any of the dogs titled in obedience, agility, or conformation? Keep in mind that not all breeders are good people, and try to not let a cute puppy take over your mind when he/she may be plauged by genetic/health problems!

Personally, I'd go with another breed. I worked for a year at a kennel that bred Toy Poodles (BYB) as well as have family members that love the little buggers.

I have yet to meet an intelligent toy poodle. The standard Poodles are absolutely brilliant dogs but something went wrong between point A and B when they were breeding toys and minis. Some people don't care if their dog is clueless so that may not be a problem for you. I like a dog that can think.

The temperamemt you saw on the puppy is kind of average. The poodles I worked with were either "fall all over you with kisses" where they can't think or do anything unless their doing that (submission). Or defensive (backing away from anyone who may be the boogie man) sometimes snappy dogs. My mom's boyfriend has three toy poodles that are super well socialized and even when they come over they try attacking my GSD and back away from me when I try and pet them. Perhaps they sense I don't like them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Additionally, the breed is riddled with health problems because they are so easy to acquire and so many pet people are breeding their poodles to make money. In the course of this, they are passing on problems with eyes, patellas, epilepsy (big problem in toy poodles!), hips, etc. Luckily they are so small that structural abnormalities don't seem to really affect them.

If you want to avoid the health issues and find something that may have some brain cells, I'd look for a show breeder. If your looking at toy poodles that look like dachshunds with curly hair then your probably looking at a dog who's going to be a health wreck.

There are a lot of other small breeds of dogs that I find much more intelligent and healthy. Miniature Dachshunds, the occassional pomeranian, miniature schnauzers, pugs, beagle, boston terrier, french bulldog, and most any of the terriers (scottish terriers, fox terriers, and norwich terriers are all excellent) .... these are just some breeds that if I ever went with a small dog, they'd probably be under consideration. You would be getting a much sturdier dog, both structurally and temperamentally.

And just for the other side of the story, I train with a group of AKC trainers 1x a week and there actually is a toy poodle that is doing Open work (CDX) so I do suppose there has to be an intelligent one out there. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I heard from numerous sources that poodles are one of the smartest breeds in the world, behind only border collie's. This is what confuses me, it's information that is contradictory.

Any other insights from dog trainers?

Thanks.

 Quote:

We are considering getting a toy poodle because they are so smart as well as small enough to take with you easily etc........

I've read many times that BCs might have the highest IQ among shedding dogs and Poodles the highest among non-shedders. (I have no idea why that would be a line between categories!)

And I've also read that Poodles have been so popular that they, like other extremely popular breeds, have suffered from the practices of inexpert breeders, BYBs, and puppy mills (and yes, the pet shop dog is not the way to go, EVER, IMO, unless you want to support puppy mills). Dana has pointed out this problem, and here is further discussion:
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/poodle.html#Search

A quote from http://www.canismajor.com/dog/poodle.html#Today :
QUOTE: Generally, although the smaller poodles share the standard's intelligence, they are much more active indoors and out; less stable, especially with children; more demanding of attention; and frequently are yappy. END

This site addresses the additional health concerns to be aware of when choosing a smaller Poodle:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poodle

Here's a nice overview:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/toypoodle.htm

Good job, that you are doing your research first!

Also, keep in mind, this breed needs to be groomed regularly, (usually hair cut every 4 - 6 wks, with owner brushing almost daily,) & that can get expensive!

Dana's advice is right on the money here, and many of the breeds that she named would be my choices for a small dog.

Seriously, do a bit more research and maybe consider another of the smaller breeds - you'll increase your chance of happiness by doing so, and I mean that sincerely!

Dana,my dear - you earn another star in my book, nice work! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

We had a miniature poodle. Grooming was a pain--she hated it, so when she hit 9 or 10 yrs we stopped taking her for fear it would give her a heart attack and I had to learn to clip her. She was unusual though--very quiet--but well socialized so she was pretty friendly.

I'm working as a groomer right now--the best small dogs I've seen come in in terms of friendliness, what intelligence can be gauged in a 3-5 hr time span, and health-wise--Scottish Terriers and most of the Westies (West Highland White Terriers) and Papillons are some of the best. Schnauzers are evil little guys--ones that won't bite the groomer are rare. Yorkies are a toss up--some do great, some not so much. The Dachshunds are good for the most part (although we have one long haired that comes in to be shaved...couldn't they have just gotten a short hair?). The Poodles range--the standards are great, the Mins and Toys cover the gamut. I think most of the Maltese I've seen are okay, but there have been a few evil little nippers. All of the Cairn terriers that come in are great. Mmm...I think that's all of the regulars. We get the odd Jack Russell, Beagles, and mutts but the ones I listed are the main ones that come in.

Just my 2 cents ^_^ Personally, I love Papillons--I want to get one at some point. They're great agility dogs--very smart, very friendly, and don't require a whole lot of grooming unless you're weird and want all that gorgeous hair cut off.

 Quote:

Personally, I'd go with another breed. I worked for a year at a kennel that bred Toy Poodles (BYB) as well as have family members that love the little buggers.......

Any experience with Bichons? I adopted a senior female once and found her to be very smart, agreeable, and fun (even at her age, and she lived to be very old). But I don't know any others, so she may have been unusual.

She was also sensitive and people-oriented -- again, maybe individual characteristics..........?

Not a dog trainer, but I can offer another breed for consideration. My daughter has a miniture American Eskimo who is healthy, very smart, affectionate and feisty. He needs to be brushed, but not clipped. I have found him to be much more interesting then many small dogs.