Hi everyone:

Although I do not have a GSD or intend to raise a working dog, I have found this website to be extremely useful. I have searched the forum, printed off several of Ed's articles and ordered the 8 week to 8 month puppy dvd.

This is my issue. We have a 10 week old yellow lab pup that we brought home just over a week ago. In the kitchen we have an ex-pen which is 12 square feet and another standard crate in our bedroom. The pup has no problem entering the ex-pen and goes in willingly to eat, rest, and play. When we close the door to it and walk away - whether we are stay in the house or leave, he has a tantrum and will not stop barking and crying. We have tried to ignore it, but on a couple of occasions he has messed his pen. We are now looking at reducing the size of it. Is there anything other than ignoring it that we could try?
I've tried walking into the room and ignoring him...praising him when he's quiet...but he stills has fits when we leave him. I realize that it's only been just over a week, but my neurotic tendencies have me thinking that I'm going to have a dog with separation anxiety and that will never be able to be left alone. Help!?

Almost all puppies are going to put up some kind of a protest when you try to leave them, so when you come back and take them out or try to reassure them ("there there, it's okay" etc), they are actually training you! Clever little buggers, eh? This is what I did for my Malinois when I got him at 4 months. He didn't get an ex pen, but he was crated. I did a lot of going and coming and going and coming in and out of the door and I always gave him a "safe" phrase that I would say each time "Be good dogs!" so that he would learn that no matter how long I left, I would come back. When I would come back, he would often be barking or crying in the crate. The crate was next to my couch, so I would sit on the couch with my leash in hand to get him ready to go out, but with my back to him. I would silently count to ten before he could be let out and during that 10 seconds, he would have to be perfectly silent. Not a whine, bark, or whimper. Once the 10 seconds are up (and each time you hear them whine, start the 10 seconds over), I turned back to him and praised him and let him out for his walk. That way he learns that he only gets to come out if he's a quiet pup. Within less than two weeks, he was pretty much silent in his crate since I didn't reward the "But MOM! Let me OUT!" tantrum he was trying to throw.

Also, keep the comings and goings as low key as possible, as don't give the pup one last pet before walking out the door. Gather yours stuff to leave quickly (keys, purse, phone, coat etc) quickly, say the safe phrase (to the air, not necessarily to the dog), and leave. Once the pup goes in his crate, he's done. And he doesn't get to come back out until he's quiet. If you walk out the door and can hear him whining, try waiting a few seconds, walk back in, pretend to pick something off the counter or whatever (and don't even look over at him!), and walk back out. Gradually increase the length of time (it might take a few days of doing this), but he'll figure out you're not going to abandon him. That being said, a general rule of thumb is only leave the pup in the crate no more than an hour more than the number of months he is old.

I also would try to make the crate smaller (you can use cardboard sides of boxes), because then he is less likely to have an accident in his space.
However, if you do that, make sure he gets let out often enough to go outside, so he isn't forced to mess up his area.

Thank you for the advice...we actually did that yesterday with some mdf/melamine board. It is now the size of his standard crate.
My husband came home this morning after being out for about an hour and he had made a mess with his water bowl...next week is the real test, when we're both back at work full-time. Oh, the dread.

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...next week is the real test, when we're both back at work full-time. Oh, the dread...

Get ready now.

Here's a lot of suggestions to work with *now*:

http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showf...rue#Post4167193

The reason CRATE training works so well, is because once they get used to it, it's a safe comforting 'den' for them. I never leave food or water in it, setting them up to make a mess AND not get housebroken because of the 'what goes in must come out' theory. I exercise the heck out of my dogs when I am home, so really just expect them to rest and sleep in their crates. At best I would leave a kong packed with some difficult to get treats so they would be able to entertain themselve with that.

So I guess I'm saying I wouldn't use the x-pen until your dog is much older. I know that as a 'human' it initially seemed cruel to cage my puppy when I left the house. But once I got that they aren't little humans that would mind, but puppies that naturally are set up to WANT to have a safe den to stay in, it became alot easier for me to just put them in the crate, toss in the kong, and leave the house.

Here's some infor about crate training if it helps:

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/lib-SpecTrain.htm#crate

Thank you for your input and the links...it helps to read that others have gone and are going through the same thing, and that in most cases an improvement is seen. I think a lot of my anxiety comes from the fact that we do live in a townhouse and I worry about my neighbours getting frustrated. We've already spoken to them about it and they said they actually haven't heard a thing! That's a bit of a relief.
We have practiced leaving the room for short periods of time, and not returning to his room until he has settled down. When he is crying, and we happen to walk in(just so he knows we're still around and haven't abandoned him)we completely ignore him and walk out again.
Since he is a lab, he is VERY food motivated and this helps. We do leave a stuffed kong for him when we leave the house, but I will now make it a habit of removing it from his pen when he's done so that he ONLY gets it when we leave. Right now, we also give it to him in his crate after he wakes in the middle of the night to relieve himself because he doesn't like going back to his crate until morning. We have also resorted to the spray bottle <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> when he starts his crying at 4 or 5 am. One squirt and he's quiet.
We're actually looking forward to him getting a little older so that we can take him for a good walk in the morning to tire him out. Since he's only 10 weeks old we can't do that yet, but we do play with him in the house before we leave.
Again, thanks for all the links and info, it really does make me feel better.

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Right now, we also give it to him in his crate after he wakes in the middle of the night to relieve himself because he doesn't like going back to his crate until morning. We have also resorted to the spray bottle <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> when he starts his crying at 4 or 5 am. One squirt and he's quiet.
We're actually looking forward to him getting a little older so that we can take him for a good walk in the morning to tire him out. Since he's only 10 weeks old we can't do that yet, but we do play with him in the house before we leave.
Again, thanks for all the links and info, it really does make me feel better.

Some people might disagree with me on this, but I would not squirt a 10 week old puppy with a squirt bottle if he's got to go out at 5 AM. As your dog gets older just by a few weeks, he'll be able to hold it for longer and longer in the morning, but just think of him like a baby right now. Human infants don't hold it all night and should not be expected to. If he whines at 5 AM having to go out, try doing what I said with the ignoring thing for 10 seconds, take him out when he's quiet, praise him when he goes, and then back inside to go in the crate. It's a huge pain getting up that early for a few months if you're not a morning person (which I'm not!), but it's part of the process. You always want to set the pup up for successes in terms of training even at 5 AM, not failure that he might end up going in his crate (which is something you really want to avoid, as that negates the point of the crate). If he's 2 months old and getting you up at 5 AM, see if he can wait until 6 AM when he's 3 months, 7 AM for 4 months, etc (which is pretty standard for all the puppies I've had).

The other thing is, you don't want to punish him for telling that he has to go potty. My husky/Rott mix is about 4-5 years old and came to me in October as a foster. He was likely punished for whining when he had to go out as he can't seem to "tell" me when he's got to go, so though he is housetrained, he occasionally does have an accident when we don't read his signals, whereas the other two dogs know to whine or get visably restless when they gotta go. I keep meaning to go to Hobby Lobby or something and get some craft bells that he can ring because he's silent otherwise in the house. Anyways, when he's older, he can hold for longer, but for now, be consistent, praise the successes, minorly scold the accidents, and you'll be well on your way for crate and potty training.

Maren:
I see what you're saying, but I should clarify. We only use the squirt bottle when he starts whining after just having been out for a pee an hour before. The schedule right now seems to be that he is waking around 3-4 am and it usually starts with a few whimpers...we always take him out at this time because we figure it's legit...and it always is. He does his business whithin a few seconds of being on the ground outside. It's only when he starts whining again about an hour later that we figure it's for reasons other than having to go to the bathroom, at which time he gets a squirt. If we didn't live in a townhouse I'd be more inclined to let him whine/bark, but I feel badly for the neighbours.

Oh, I definitely know what you mean about living in a townhouse. From when I got Zoso from 4 months to 7 months, I was in an apartment building but am now in a duplex, so I had to worry about the neighbors. However, that being said, as much as you fear the wrath of your neighbors and/or landlord (as I did!), whining is going to happen unfortunately and you take a chance that you're actually prolonging the whining. In fact, that's why many landlords or condo associations don't allow young puppies. Anyways, ignore what you can and correct what you absolutely can't is true, but try really really hard to keep it in perspective when you get a young puppy. Just like a baby, this thing comes with the territory. I don't think I'll get another puppy for this reason. You might want to look for a Homedics sound spa (I think they are called that and you can get them at Target) as those have settings to heart beat and white noise as they are invaluable to block out the noise. When all else fails, just remember: this too shall pass. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />