I AM NEW AT THIS, SINCE MY GSD IS STILL A PUP AT 7 MONTHS, BUT I AM TRYING TO FIND A HAPPY MEDIAM AT FEEDING HIM WHATS GOOD FOR HIM AS I LEARN TO CARE FOR HIM. I HAVE BEEN FEEDING HIM RAW CHICKEN GIBLETS, CHICKEN LIVERS, BEEF LIVERS ALONG WITH CANIDAE KIBBLE AND THEIR CAN FOOD AND THEIR BISCUITS FOR TREATS. MY QUESTION IS SHOULD I BE CHOPPING UP THE MEATS WHEN I FEED THEM OR JUST FEED THEM WHOLE(I DO CUT UP THE BEEF LIVER IN 2 INCH PIECES). SOME OF THE MEALS I FEED ARE
2 CUPS KIBBLE AND 1/2 CAN OF CANIDAE= 1 MEAL
1 LB OF CHICKEN GIBLETS = 1 MEAL
2 CUPS KIBBLE W/RAW EGG AND LEFTOVER BREADED VEAL FROM DINNER= 1MEAL
HE ALSO GETS TWO HUMAN VITAMINS EVERY MORNING THAT THE VET GAVE ME.
I KEEP READING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE PRINT ABOUT FEEDING AND I GUESS I GETTING CONFUSED.
HE IS ALREADY 73 LBS, BUT HIS DAD WAS 125 LBS AND HIS MOTHER WAS 95 LBS.
ANY ADVICE TO A NEW MOM <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Elizabeth, Are you trying to feed him a raw food diet, or just supplement his kibble with raw food? First thing is don't give him any cooked food left over from dinner. It is not healthy for him and can mess up his digestive system. If you are trying to feed him a raw diet, you need to cut out the kibble because it is counter productive for the raw diet. Except for all the bad stuff kibble has in it, most have added vitamins that you really don't need to supplement for. That is their selling point. Be careful of what your vet gives you. They won't really do things to harm your dog, but will try to make money off you. If you feed kibble, there probably is not need to supplement vitamins unless you are giving what the kibble doesn't have. If it a basic vitamin you are wasting your money. You can't really give a dog too many vitamins, they get rid of what they don't use, but your vet is making money by selling them to you. Just keep that in mind. I recommend an all raw diet, and supplement with vitamins. As far as cutting up the meat, I'm not sure on that. I have an 8 month old that I given RAW chicken wings to. She eats bones and all. Bigger chunks of meat she tears apart and eats what her mouth can handle. She has eaten a RAW breast and thigh also. You will just have to watch to make sure he not trying to scarf it down where it might cause him to choke, but usually instincts will tell them to eat what they can handle. If you need more info on the Raw food diet, let me know or check out sites on the web...The ones that talk bad about a Raw food diet are usually filled with opinions and not very many facts, and lots of ignorance....

Quick point, you can cause tremendous damage to dogs by over-supplementing vitamins or minerals. They do not, "just get rid of what they don't need."

Chad, are water soluable vitamins also dangerous? I thought we just excrete what we don't use when it's water soluable. Is it damaging to the kidneys?

Water soluble are less dangerous (larger quantities needed to cause toxicity) but can still be toxic. Any nutrient at a certain level will have a toxic effect. The LD50 (Letahl Dose 50 - dose at which 50% of test subjects die)for most, if not all, vitamins and minerals has been determined. If you want to find out maximal tolerable does the NRC (National Research Council) published a book on these I believe in 1980.

I feed raw, used Billinghurst recommendations for vitamins etc. given based on body weight-- good results // good blood tests.

I would not supplement kibble very much as you could throw off the balance of nutrients.

If you feed kibble, some additional vitamin c would possibly be a good thing. I think that it would be hard to overdose on the water soluble vitamins as you will have runny stools before o.d., Vitamin A - particularly and any other fat soluble can be overdosed -- vitamin A should not be given if liver is fed.

Billinghurst = "Give your dog a bone"

That is a huge puppy. Keep him lean for sure. Dont excercise him with hard running and jumping until he is completely grown (but swimming would be a good way until then)

That big a dog for sure you want lean and muscular to protect his hips.

I GUESS I COULD BE OVER SUPPLEMENTING WITH VITAMINS, GIVING HIM RAW AND KIBBLE AND CANNED, NOT TOGETHER, BUT IN ALL.THE VITAMINS THE VET GAVE ME ARE CALLED "CATALYN" SERVING SIZE ON THE BOTTLE IS 3 A DAY AND I GIVE CHOPPER 2 A DAY. SERVING SIZE GIVES 1,200 IU OF VITAMIN A, 4MG OF VITAMIN C, 312 IU OF VITAMIN D,0.2MG OF THIAMINE, 0.2MG OF RIBOFLAVIN AND 1MG OF VITAMIN B6.
THERE ARE SOME OF THE SAME VITAMIN SUPPLEMENTS IN THE CANIDAE KIBBLE, SUCH AS VITAMIN A AND THE B6, BUT STATE THEY ARE SUPPLEMENTS, ALSO RIBOFLAVIN AND THIAMINE, THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT MIMIC THE VITAMINS I GIVE HIM. I ONLY GIVE HIM 2 CUPS OF KIBBLE AND IT CALLS FOR 3 CUPS BY HIS WEIGHT, AND I WILL GIVE HIM A CAN OF CANIDAE AS A MEAL WITH NOTHING ELSE, I GUESS I CHOSE THE CANIDAE BECAUSE OF THE LARGE VARIETY OF FOODS THEY PUT IN IT, CHICKEN, LAMB AND FISH AND THEY SAY IT NATURALLY CONTAINS OMEGA-6 AND OMEGA-3 FATTY ACIDS WHICH I THOUGHT WERE VERY IMPORTANT.
IT SURE IS QUITE THE LEARNING PROCESS.
BUT NOW CHOPPER IS LIMPING THIS MORNING, I COULD SEE SOME LIMP IN THE PAST WEEK, AND GETTING PROGRESSIVLY WORSE. I HAVE BEEN READING ABOUT PANO, BEING HE IS SO BIG FOR HIS AGE, I THOUGHT THAT COULD BE IT, BUT NOW I AM NOT SO SURE SO I WILL CALL MY VET TODAY AND HAVE HIM CHECKED. I WANT TO DO WHATS RIGHT FOR HIM AND I GUESS I AM TRYING TO GIVE HIM BARF WITHOUT ALL THE ADDITIVES HE NEEDS WITH IT, TRYING TO SUPPLEMENT THEM WITH THE KIBBLE AND VITAMINS. WHAT I MEAN IS GIVING HIM SOME RAW MEATS BECAUSE THEY ARE SO GOOD FOR HIM BUT MAKING SURE HE GETS ALL THE OTHER NUTRIENTS HE NEEDS BY FEEDING HIM THE KIBBLE AND VITAMINS. DO YOU THINK THE WAY I AM DOING IT IS NOT GOOD BECAUSE THE RAW MEATS ARE OVERDOSING HIM WITH VITAMINS? I FEEL LIKE A SLOW LEARNER AND I NEED TO UNDERSTAND ONE OR THE OTHER, I GUESS BEFORE I FEED HIM THIS WAY.

THANK YOU JASON, CHAD, NANCY AND LEE, I THINK I AM TRYING TOO HARD TO DO THE BEST FOR CHOPPER. WE HAD TO PUT DOWN MY SONS GSD IN NOV OF 2002 FOR PROSTATE TUMOR AND MY SON WAS SO SAD, WE GOT HIM CHOPPER FOR CHRISTMAS. HE REALLY NEEDED ANOTHER DOG. HE LOVED BEAR AND MISSED HIM, SO IT WAS TIME TO GIVE HIS LOVE TO ANOTHER. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS, I HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF CARING FOR CHOPPER BECAUSE CHRISTOPHER WORKS 7 DAYS A WEEK, AND PUPPIES NEED A LOT OF ATTENTION. I TOOK THIS RESPONSIBILITY BECAUSE I WAS NOT HAPPY WITH WHAT WE WERE FEEDING BEAR.(PURINA KIBBLE AND ALPO CAN)
SO I THOUGHT WHILE I WAS HOME I COULD PUT CHOPPER ON THE RIGHT TRACK AND HE WOULD BE A NICE HEALTHY DOG FOR MY SON.I TRULY BELIEVE THEY SHOULD BE FED HEALTHY AND I AM APPALLED AT WHAT IS IN MOST KIBBLE AND CANS. I NEED TO FIND A HAPPY MEDIUM IN WHAT I FEED CHOPPER THAT IS HEALTHY THAT CHRIS WILL KEEP UP WITH WHEN HE MOVES OUT AND GETS HIS OWN PAD WHICH WILL PROBABLY BE IN A YEAR OR LESS DOWN THE ROAD. ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR FEEDINGS PLEASE LET ME KNOW, I APPRECIATE ALL THE HELP. I LOVE THIS DISCUSSION BOARD, IT IS VERY HELPFUL TO A NEW DOG OWNER. THANKS GUYS

Sorry Chad, I wasn't real clear. Some vitamins do cause damage in large amounts and some your body does just get rid of. Minerals on the other hand are different. Iron for example. I have never heard of anyone or any animal overdosing on Vitamin C or calcium. Sorry for the confusion. I should have been more clear.
Elizabeth, I hope this dog works out for you. Something else to keep in mind, that feeding kibble, especially a low quality brand, can cause your dog to grow a little faster than what he/she should. This can lead to hip and bone problems as well. That is supposedly why they came out with the large breed puppy formula to help the large breeds grow at a slower rate and give them what they need to develop properly, thus decreasing chance for bone problems. I'm not real positive on that philosophy, becaue I feed RAW and feed according to what the dog needs, but that is what I read and heard from a Vet. I don't use that Vet because he bashed my RAW diet and keeps telling me the spay and neuter my dogs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />