LMAO!!

I know how you feel! Vets HATE me cos i ask far too many questions for their liking (only come across 1 vet who thought it was a good thing and actually spoke to me as a peer), and I always insist on the Vet explaining what they are ABOUT to do, as when it's done it can't be undone.

Man don't you just love the lack of trust <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Don't be upset with yourself...sometimes we just say nothing cos we are so taken aback/not thinking straight at the time.....it happens.

Just this morning I didn't say anything to a guy who let his dog pee on my front lawn, mainly cos I probably would have rattled him right in the face, but it's only a pee right <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

All The Best

John

Erika,

Your post worries me for the simple reason that you are informed and this happened to you. As it was happening, you knew this was inappropriate.

My point is not how you handled it or didn't handle it. Please don't misunderstand; I'm not judging that at all. It's just that for someone like me who is not at all informed, we have no choice but to ask around, get recommendations or referrals of vets, and ultimately put our trust in the vet. During exams, we assume what they are doing is OK.

My vet did almost exactly what you said yours did...

"Then he asks me how "dominance training is coming along". Oh boy, here we go... He goes into this whole freaking Alpha dog crap (no offense to those that train that way, dont want to get into that discussion now) and proceeds to take the puppy by her cheeks and stare her down, telling me that I need to do this if I want to be "dominant"."

My vet made my dog cry grabbing his face and staring him down (Gunnar was only about 5 months old)and I stupidly thought (until now) that was what had to happen <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> !

So, thanks for the post. It will help me in the future visits to NOT be so trusting of their "expertise"!

 Quote:

........"Then he asks me how "dominance training is coming along". Oh boy, here we go... He goes into this whole freaking Alpha dog crap (no offense to those that train that way, dont want to get into that discussion now) and proceeds to take the puppy by her cheeks and stare her down, telling me that I need to do this if I want to be "dominant".".......My vet made my dog cry grabbing his face and staring him down (Gunnar was only about 5 months old)and I stupidly thought (until now) that was what had to happen <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> !.....So, thanks for the post. It will help me in the future visits to NOT be so trusting of their "expertise"!

Here's my own take on vets (unless and until you have known your vet for a looooong time and understand each other's training philosophies): The vet has zero say over any kind of training issue. Zero.

That's not what they went to vet school for.

It can be hard, I know, to speak up, but if you go in prepared for good-bad-indifferent training advice from everyone, from the waiting-room people to the receptionist to the techs and vets, you'll have your reply ready (maybe "Thanks for that viewpoint; I'll mention it to my trainer").

The physical manhandling: We do what we know. Now you know better, and you will never allow that to happen again. PLUS you have caused a whole bunch of readers of this forum to be prepared not to allow it, too.

You've both done a great favor here, IMO.

I am soooo glad my vet isn't like that!! It took about 2 visits for him to understand that I'm not dumb, and he and I have a great relationship. He never discusses training (never has)and I don't either. He has always been great with my dogs and we have a "tell it like it is" relationship.

I'm sorry you had this experience, but as was said, now others know what not to let happen!

Thanks guys... I think I was more shocked than anything else. It took a while to sink in, and then it was "I can't believe that he did that!!!"

I guess I didnt think that it would ever happen to one of my dogs, being that I am experienced and know what is up. I mean, I had my hackles up and was ready to go when the Barkbusters guy did a seminar at my clinic a while ago.."I'd really like to get my hands on your dog.." Over my dead body, homie. I know I have read horror stories about vets before, but supposed that it couldnt happen that easily. It was like watching a train wreck happen.

I sure do hope that this inspires other people to speak up in the future, dont just go along with it out of respect. Who knows, perhaps that will be a lightbulb to that vet and it wont happen again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Don't everyone be too awful quick to judge vets. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But you all's points are interesting to me as a future vet myself. But before I'm a vet, I have my training as a biologist and behaviorist, so I might have a somewhat different perspective on things like nutrition (no, a wolf would do poorly on Science Diet, hate to say...) and behavior. Though there are a lot of vets out there that have degrees in biology, a bachelor's in biology is pretty much a little bit of biology and a lot of chemistry and physics. I have a bit of a different perspective with a masters, but that isn't super common in your down the street vet. Just as you're not going to always agree with or like your human doc, you might always agree with or like your animal doc. Just don't be afraid to ask questions and don't get too offended with a lecture. Especially since I've been teaching the undergrads the last 4 semesters, I have a big propensity to lecture. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Oopsie...but then again, there are an incredibly high number of owners who don't know the dog's head from its tail, so I guess better to be safe than sorry? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

My biggest problem is the pompousness of it all..he did not even bother to ASK me anything at all!! I fully expect a lecture from vets, and that is a reasonable assumption. But I have worked rooms with probably 10 different vets in my years at clinics, and all have had the common courtesy to ask your name, and what you know-or would like to know. Except for this guy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

My biggest problem is the pompousness of it all..he did not even bother to ASK me anything at all!! I fully expect a lecture from vets, and that is a reasonable assumption. But I have worked rooms with probably 10 different vets in my years at clinics, and all have had the common courtesy to ask your name, and what you know-or would like to know. Except for this guy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

This has been brought up before here, but I think it's worth saying again.

Before you need the vet, before the first visit, an interview process can really help your decision. YOU are the one paying/hiring. You can start with a list of recommendations (from your dog clubs or friends), and then call the vets for interviews.

A telephone interview (with the vet....not the receptionist) can work, too, but I used those to narrow it down to one, and still did a real visit with that one before my dogs went there.

I wanted to know that we had the same ideas about pain management, about where and when I could stay with the dogs during procedures, about being told lab costs up front, and several other things. We all have certain things we want to see eye-to-eye with our vets about. (I wanted to know that even though my vet doesn't suggest raw, she was not against my choice and would support it, for example.)

It's an important partnership -- and we are the "customers." It's our job to choose carefully, I think, and as much in advance as possible. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Erika,

I understand how you must feel. I had a similar situation with a vet I had used for years. He was the vet who saw both of my female Rotts and was always great with them. He was knowledgable, personable and professional. I also credit him with saving the life of one of my Rottie females. He went the extra mile in consulting with other vets and researching her condition when we were stumped and even cried with me when we put her to sleep years later. I liked him because he sat on the floor with my dogs and had a very natural manner about him. Even when my fearful rescue Rottie growled at him, he kept his composure and never held it against her. He was always a super intuitive person when handling my females and I grew to trust him very much.

However, when I got my new male Rottie pup, it was a whole different story. I took him in for his first "well puppy" visit and it was a complete disaster. My puppy was only ten weeks old and a very happy, sweet, good puppy. The first thing my vet did was to roughhouse with him. I suppose he was trying to be a "guy" with him, but he never allowed my pup to get accustomed to him - hell, he didn't even introduce himself to my pup. He did just what your vet did - grabbed my dog's face, cuffed him on the head and just generally inappropriately man-handled him. Being the kind of pup my pup was, he gave him a low growl to tell him that he didn't like being mauled. At that point I was so floored at the transformation of my previously great vet into a complete idiot that I could barely speak. I told him in measured words that my dog didn't like what he was doing and neither did I. At one point he actually made my pup cry out like yours did. Needless to say, I never took my dog back to that vet again. I don't know, maybe it was because my puppy was a male and my vet thought he needed to treat him differently than my females. It still puzzles me.